In article <barmar-6F911B.08292704022009[at]mara100-84.onlink.net> ,
Barry Margolin <barmar[at]alum.mit.edu> wrote:
- quote -

That's not a very useful search, then. If I know approximately what a
line item is called, but not what the form it's on is called, it
doesn't help me at all.

(In particular, that search doesn't return the 1040 itself, which is
where the line item for Wages goes.)

Seth

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <barmar-6F911B.08292704022009[at]mara100-84.onlink.net> ,
Barry Margolin <barmar[at]alum.mit.edu> wrote:

- quote -

You understand what I was driving at. I would like to have the
capability at a minimum. It was not available on TurboTax 2007.

It also would be helpful to be able to search the forms even while you
would not be able to change them. Thus, searching for "social" on 1040
will find where on the form Social Security is.

This time around, I am going to use Tax Cut 2008.

Bill

--
Private Profit; Public Poop! Avoid collateral windfall!

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <gm9uvr$9rb$8[at]reader1.panix.com> , sethb[at]panix.com (Seth)
wrote:

- quote -

They're just the names of the forms and worksheets, mostly taken from
the official IRS forms. E.g. if you type "wage", it matches:

Form W-2: Wage & Tax Statement
Wages, Salaries, & Tips Worksheet
Form 8919-T: Uncollected SS and Medicare Tax on Wages
Form 8919-S: Uncollected SS and Medicare Tax on Wages

So it's not a full-text search engine, just an easy way to filter down
the list of forms to select from.

If you're looking for the 1099 from The Dog Company, Inc., you would
first search for 1099, select the appropriate type (1099-INT, 1099-DIV,
etc.), and then you'll get a list of all those 1099's and you can select
the one you want to fix.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar[at]alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

"Salmon Egg" <SalmonEgg[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:SalmonEgg-6B6188.16434102022009[at]news.la.sbcglobal.net...
- quote -

Alas, I think this is the inherent problem with all things made by man - as
we are flawed by nature, so too are our works.

Even the professional version of the software I use - ProSeries
Professional - has odd little quirks in it. For example, on Schedule A for
real estate taxes and charitable contributions I can hit the T, S or J key
FROM THE DOLLAR field to mark the items as paid by the Taxpayer, Spouse or
Jointly. However on the same Schedule A for Mortgage Interest the TSJ flag
is tied to the DESCRIPTION field - this precludes me from just hitting T, S
or J since it will print the letter as part of the description.

Also, on the Schedule B for interest and dividend income ProSeries has no
way to enter the percentage of income that is nontaxable or attributable to
a nonresident state. So I have to do the math manually, figure out that of
the $25 in interest that $10 is from U. S. Obligations, $10 is from a
resident state municipal and the balance is from a nonresident state
municipal then enter the numbers on three different lines - since these
items get treated differently on the Federal and State returns.

Sometimes I wish there was a better way, but the reality is that they have
yet to build a machine that can function like the human mind. I for one am
glad of that, I fear what the future would be like if machines could make
the decisions humans make.

Gene E. Utterback, EA, RFC, ABA

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <barmar-E79014.00132803022009[at]mara100-84.onlink.net> ,
Barry Margolin <barmar[at]alum.mit.edu> wrote:
- quote -

Who created the list of keywords? Is it the list of words that
someone at Intuit thinks are relevant, or does it include every
(non-trivial) word that appears in the form plus synonyms?

Seth

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <SalmonEgg-6B6188.16434102022009[at]news.la.sbcglobal.net> ,
Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:

- quote -

Why do you keep on repeating this lie, even though I've told you several
times that you can use the Open Form button to search for a form by
keyword? It's available in forms mode, not interview mode.

I do have some minor complaints about this program not doing what I
expect computers to do for me. Most mutual funds report the percentage
of their dividends that are from government obligations. But TT doesn't
provide any place to enter the percentage, I have to use a calculator to
perform this multiplication. Any time I have to go outside the program
to perform a common calculation, it means that the TT folks left out a
useful worksheet.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar[at]alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <gm81le$d76$1[at]news.motzarella.org> ,
"Gene E. Utterback, EA, RFC, ABA" <gene[at]alliancetax.com> wrote:

- quote -

I do not deny that knowing your stuff is useful. I finally distilled my
dislike of TurboTax mainly to requiring me to do WHAT COMPUTERS DO. It
is as if you had a word processor without a Find command. If you knew
that you spelled "God" as "dog" many times in a document, it is no
problem correct that. You use the cursor to mark "dog" and type "God".
If Intuit software engineers designed the program, you would not be able
to search for "dog". You could scan the document and make corrections as
needed. Of course, you would be able to get the pro version to get
around that little problem at extra cost.

Bill

--
Private Profit; Public Poop! Avoid collateral windfall!

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

"Salmon Egg" <SalmonEgg[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:SalmonEgg-B89526.20164030012009[at]news.la.sbcglobal.net...
- quote -

As an aside, with no malice intended toward Salmon -

When you ask for help at Lowes or Home Depot can you really rely on the
pimpled faced kid who happens to be standing in the aisle at the time? If
you go in looking to buy a welder I have no doubt that Junior can show you
where they are, but asking him how to use a Lincoln Arc Welder on stainless
steel is a big mistake - And if you think reading the instruction book makes
you a welder then you deserve to have your retinas burned away.

Intuit makes software, a tool. I dislike TurboTax even though its made by
the same people who make the software I use - ProSeries. The difference is
not that one tool is better, the difference is in the operator. And do NOT
let the cost fool you. We pay thousands for ProSeries Professional and
there are still calculations that it won't do and at least one state return
that it won't even try to handle.

No tool is a replacement for competence - as smart and bright as I am I did
NOT do my own LASIK surgery, root canal or colonoscopy. If you've done your
own returns for years with OTC software and suddenly you find yourself
having problems I would suggest that either the laws or your situation have
changed to the point where maybe it is time to see a pro!

Good luck,
Gene E. Utterback, EA, RFC, ABA

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <barmar-71BA13.21480230012009[at]mara100-84.onlink.net> ,
Barry Margolin <barmar[at]alum.mit.edu> wrote:

- quote -

It has been at least three years that I have tried to get to Intuit. I
believe that I even used snail mail once. This month, I contacted them
via their Web page. I stated that I would try another product. I did get
a useless automated answer. For better or worse, I think that I will
give Tax Advantage a go this year.

Bill

--
Private Profit; Public Poop! Avoid collateral windfall!

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article
<32f5e2a5-0f8e-4c49-8091-ff30fd3b4935[at]d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com> ,
Russ in San Diego <russgoog[at]gmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

They also have their own forums, where you can solicit advice from other
users.

But I get the impression that Salmon isn't really interested in
discussing TurboTax, he just wants to vent.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar[at]alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

On Jan 30, 10:05*am, "removeps-gro...[at]yahoo.com" <removeps-
gro...[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
- quote -

You should also consider providing input directly to Intuit. It
probably does little good (other than your feeling better after
venting) to post your observations here. Intuit has an "Inner Circle"
program designed to solicit just these sorts of opinions. Contact
them directly to learn about it.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

On Jan 29, 10:14 am, Salmon Egg <Salmon...[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:

- quote -

A human tax preparer might be the best choice.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <barmar-12C4F7.20573329012009[at]mara100-84.onlink.net> ,
Barry Margolin <barmar[at]alum.mit.edu> wrote:

- quote -

I did indeed do so. I had some qualms about posting again. But since
that first post, my thoughts on the subject have crystalized a bit
better. I also see a path to provide a better program that would
eliminate shortcomings.

My guess is that combining the interview method with the forms method is
what causes many problems that can be circumvented with modern
programming techniques.

Bill

--
Private Profit; Public Poop! Avoid collateral windfall!

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <SalmonEgg-18972F.18444228012009[at]news.la.sbcglobal.net> ,
Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:

- quote -

Haven't you posted this same complaint before? Or was it someone else?

When you click on "Open Form", you can type a keyword into the search
field to filter down to the forms that match.

- quote -

When opening a form there's a checkbox "Open in separate window". If
you do this, each window remembers its cursor location.

If you close a window, everything about it is forgotten (except the
data, of course).

- quote -

Programs like TurboTax are basically a fancy facade on a spreadsheet.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar[at]alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

My experience has been mostly with TurboTax.

My biggest gripe boils down to the software making me do things that I
bought the computer to do for me. The software should minimize the
mental effort I expend searching. The computer does not know what I want
so I realize I must explicitly tell the computer what to search for.
Nevertheless, I should be able to search for a term occurring anywhere
in an open window whether or not it is in data or in the text of the
forms.

I should be able to search the list of forms by key word including the
form number. I should not have to do a visual search of the list
requiring me read each line to find the form I want.

If I jump amongst a series of forms, each form should remember where my
cursor was when I last visited that form. I should not have to search to
find my place the way I do when I close a book I am reading without
marking it.

I am not a hot shot programmer and I have not programmed anything
significant for about two decades. I do know that techniques are
available to carry tasks I described by using modern programming
languages. Using records and linked list data structures, that should
not be a big deal. Those structures have been around for decades.

A program like TurboTax sometimes has an entry that can be modified by
several sources or forms. Sometimes that operation can be buggy. That
can be done using record data structures for entry. The record structure
can have components that can be filled by all the forms that can affect
it along with an indication of which component is the one to be used. I
think object oriented programming may also be a suitable approach, but I
am not very familiar with those techniques.

Am I asking for too much? What other gripes are out there? I realize
that any program can have a bug in it. I am asking for an approach that
does not have you fighting the software in addition to the tax code.

My history has been that I used TurboTax back when it was MacinTax. The
price was going up when Intuit bought it. The price became much lower at
the expense of becoming harder to use. At one time I bought Tax Cut.
That was a disaster. It may have been like that because it was the first
year it was supposed to work on a Mac. It may be time to revisit that. I
am also thinking of TaxAdvantage.

Bill

--
Private Profit; Public Poop! Avoid collateral windfall!

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >