Bob Sandler wrote:

- quote -


I thought that's what I said...

To repeat, does the business definition of "necessary" apply to a
charitable activity?

-Mark Bole

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- quote -

The IRS definition of "necessary" is not the normal meaning
of the word. Pub. 334, Tax Guide for Small Business, defines
it this way.

"To be deductible, a business expense must be both ordinary
and necessary. An ordinary expense is one that is
common and accepted in your field of business. A necessary
expense is one that is helpful and appropriate for your
business. An expense does not have to be indispensable
to be considered necessary."

(Pub. 334, Tax Guide for Small Business, Chapter 8, Business
Expenses, page 31. Essentially the same wording in Pub. 535,
Business Expenses, Chapter 1, page 2.)

Bob Sandler

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Stuart Bronstein wrote:
....
- quote -

Normally it's the time element w/ business that makes the necessity.
When counting the driving time or rail even from Pt A to Pt B of the
affected employee's wages while not doing other things than traveling,
it's not at all hard to justify the added expense of the airfare itself
against the other avoided expense.

Whether it's that key in the subject dogmoving is yet tbd...

--

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Barry Margolin <barmar[at]alum.mit.edu> wrote:

- quote -

I'm not sure that's what "necessary" means. A business is allowed to
deduct expenses that are ordinary and necessary. Does that mean they
can't deduct the cost of an airline trip for business purposes because
it would have been cheaper to drive? I doubt it.

Stu

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Barry Margolin wrote:
- quote -

Correct. According to Pub 526, "the [...] expenses will not be denied
simply because you enjoy providing services to the charitable organization".


- quote -

The real question is, does "necessary" for a charitable organization
mean "helpful and appropriate" as it does for a trade or business?

For example, does the organization use cash donations to hire commercial
pilots if no volunteer pilots are available? In a remote area, the
reduced time spent confined in a transport cage may make a difference to
the well-being of the animal being adopted. On the other hand, a quick
internet search finds, for example, that in the New Orleans area, animal
rescue groups preparing for future hurricanes plan to use cargo vans for
animal evacuation, sometimes on multi-day trips.

Then there is at least one group (skyark.org) which specifically
recruits volunteer pilots (own airplane or one belonging to the
organization) and hints that out of pocket expenses might be
tax-deductible. They also tout how this is a way for pilots to build up
"multi-engine flight time" to qualify for insurance, so it sounds like
there often is an element of personal benefit involved, which would
offset any charitable deduction.

I wonder how a significant collection of animals needing rescue would be
located so far (flying distance) from an urban area in the first place...

-Mark Bole

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In article <wJfRk.119030$Mh5.42706[at]bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> ,
"Steve Foley" <steve.foley[at]att.DELETE.net> wrote:

- quote -

The real question seems to be whether it's *necessary* to use an
airplane for this transport, rather than something less expensive. The
statute says you can get a deduction for necessary out-of-pocket
expenses.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar[at]alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

--
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"Geoff Schultz" <fakeemailaddress[at]swbell.net> wrote in message
news:jMvQk.5751$x%.2763[at]nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
- quote -

In my case, there is no rental because I own the plane, but others are
renting for the same purpose.

I consider this similar to driving, and will, in fact, wind up driving a few
of these dogs. The rules are clear aboout gas/oil or $0.14/mile, but don't
mention rental charges, even when discussing transportation.

I don't think I'll get in any trouoble as long as I keep good records. My
comment about an excuse to go flying could be compared to 'well, I just like
to help people'. I don't think <insert disclaimer here> that enjoyment
precludes a tax deduction. Like I said, I would not have made those trips
(or incurred those expenses) if I was not transporting the dogs.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

"Arthur Kamlet" <kamlet[at]panix.com> wrote
- quote -




Dang it. I was hoping to take a charitable deduction for using my train for
charitable purposes at 14 cents per mile.



--
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Watkinsville, Georgia

--
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"Mark Bole" <makbo[at]pacbell.net> wrote

- quote -




Yeah. I doubt they'll put that on the application.



--
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Watkinsville, Georgia

--
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"Mark Bole" <makbo[at]pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:aktQk.5358$as4.609[at]nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
- quote -

That what they have stated.


- quote -

I already do. Thanks.

- quote -

No. If I was not transporting this dog, I would not have started the engine.
There was no other purpose for the flight besides transporting the dog.

--
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"Arthur Kamlet" <kamlet[at]panix.com> wrote in message
news:gethbg$7j0$1[at]reader1.panix.com...
- quote -


I see your point, but....

I don't know where I could find a paid ground transport for $120 for a 150
mile trip.

So... If I owned my own hummer limo, I couldn't deduct fuel and oil?



- quote -

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<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Steve,

Treasury regulation 1.170A-1(g) provides:

"Contributions of services. No deduction is allowable under section 170 for
a contribution of services. However, unreimbursed expenditures made incident
to the rendition of services to an organization, contributions to which are
deductible may constitute a deductible contribution. For example, the cost
of a uniform without general utility which is required to be worn in
performing donated services is deductible. Similarly, out-of-pocket
transportation expenses necessarily incurred in performing donated services
are deductible. Reasonable expenditures for meals and lodging necessarily
incurred while away from home in the course of performing donated services
also are deductible. For the purposes of this paragraph, the phrase "while
away from home" has the same meaning as that phrase is used for purposes of
section 162 and the regulations thereunder. "

Reading the above I believe you have a very strong case that, under the
circumstances you describe (BUT SEE BELOW), the rental payments you incur in
connection with providing the charitable services are deductible. If the
rental payments are based on time the engine is running, and the time when
the engine is running is clearly allocable to the charatible activities, not
only do you have a great case that under 1.170A-1(g) it is deductible, but
you also have a great case on the equity of it--you are without a doubt out
the cost of the rental payment, and it was for a chartible purpose, and thus
under the spirit of the above you should get the contribution deduction.
The whole idea behind the various rules in this area is that the IRS does
not want you driving down your income by deducting the "value" of services
provided, but if you are really out the cost for providing charitable
services that should be deducted.

However, I just re-read your post, and I see now in your last paragraph that
you say you are just using this as an excuse to go flying. If the IRS could
prove this up they would have a very good argument that all or a large
portion should be a non-deductible personal expense.

Now, it might be hard for them to prove this up because it is a subjective
thing (well, unless they got ahold of your statement that its just an excuse
to go flying . But if you are deducting tons of money to fly across the
country to transport one animal, expecially if that animal might have been
transported faster/easier/cheaper by some other method, things start looking
very fishy. Courts would weigh all the relevany facts and circumstances in
any battle between you and the IRS on this issue.

Hope this helps.


"Steve Foley" <steve.foley[at]att.DELETE.net> wrote in message
news:9AqQk.17412$_Y1.4657[at]bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
- quote -

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <aktQk.5358$as4.609[at]nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com> ,
Mark Bole <makbo[at]pacbell.net> wrote:
- quote -


Nope. The standard mileage rate is only for cars or vans or trucks,
and not for trains or boats or planes.






(With apologies to Burt Bacharach and Dionne Warwick.)
--


ArtKamlet at a o l dot c o m Columbus OH K2PZH

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Arthur Kamlet wrote:
- quote -

Is that really the sole purpose of applying for 501(c)(3) status?

- quote -

If you itemize on Schedule A, you can also deduct the portion of
personal property tax that is based on the value of the plane.

- quote -

Is the trip partly for vacation or personal pleasure? Is a dog handler
going along, or does some of the trip involve activities not directly
related to the charitable work?


- quote -

Possibly, the standard charitable mileage rate of $0.14 might be used.

- quote -

-Mark Bole

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <9AqQk.17412$_Y1.4657[at]bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> ,
Steve Foley <steve.foley[at]att.DELETE.net> wrote:
- quote -

Generally only your out of pocket expenses can be deducted.

Suppose instead of a plane you decided to rent a Hummer Limo plus
a co-driver?

Do you think that would be deductible costs?


Maybe if the animals were in a region accessible only to planes, or
maybe if getting there in a very brief time was crucial to the
operation, you could justify these expenses. But if transporting by
van or truck would be much cheaper, I don't see how you can justify
limousine charges.
--


ArtKamlet at a o l dot c o m Columbus OH K2PZH

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I have recently gotten involved in using my airplane to help animal rescue
groups transport dogs.One of the groups I'm working with is planning on
becoming a 501c3 charitable organization, to allow pilots to take tax
deductions for the flights.

What I am wondering is if Joe Doe calls this group and says "I've found
someone who will adopt my dog, will you take him there?" would that be a tax
deductable flight?

Becuase I own the plane, I believe I can only deduct the cost of gas and
oil. What happens if I rent a plane? Could I deduct the rental cost?
Airplane rental normally is billed by the time the engine is running, and
included gas and oil.

Reading through Pub 526, it looks like I should be able to deduct these
expenses. So far, I have only done two of these flights. In both cases, I
flew my plane to the airport nearest the dog, flew from there to the airport
nearest the destination, and flew back home. In each cases, it cost me about
$120 in fuel.

I'm not doing this for a deduction, but more for an excuse to go flying.
But, I really don't want to leave a big chunk of change with Uncle Sam if I
don't have to.

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