"Seth" <sethb[at]panix.com> wrote
- quote -




Indeed. Non-professional sporting activities do not generate tax deductions
for the expenses thereof. Heck, if they did, no one would pay any taxes.
Saturday afternoon before the "game" you and some buddies toss around a
football - take a deduction for that. Sunday afternoon, you and your
golfing buddies on the greens - take a deduction for that. Tuesday night,
you and your pool hall buddies playing 8-ball - take a deduction for that.






--
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Watkinsville, Georgia

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <750465f1-039d-42d4-b7c8-240ee9adc4d4[at]k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com> ,
<nonsense[at]mynonsense.net> wrote:
- quote -

Defined as? No.

However, promoting amateur athletics is one of the allowable purposes
for a tax-exempt organization.

Seth

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

On Sep 19, 7:34 am, "Paul Thomas, CPA" <paulthomascp...[at]bellsouth.netwrote:

- quote -

Ok , I understand your point now. However, are amateur athletic
competitions defined as charitable activities? If so, which of my
expenses can I deduct? Would it be deductible as personal or business
expense?

but I need to look that up. It may be in my files.

--
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In article <gaumor$qiv$1[at]reader1.panix.com> ,
Dick Adams <rdadams[at]panix.com> wrote:

- quote -

Since when are expenses for pro bono random-health-club deductible?

Seth

--
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<nonsense[at]mynonsense.net> wrote
- quote -



Yes, I know. I have a client who does sports reporting via a website among
other formats. It is, in fact, an on-line newspaper with paying
subscribers. But, reporting IS his business.



- quote -



They fall under running a sports reporting business.

I also have clients that maintain websites for their cleints. One for a
travel agency. They hardly have to travel the world to obtain the
information necessary to keep the website updated. Pictures are provided by
the client as well, pricing is updated daily. Another is for a band. They
hardly have to travel to exotic venues to be able to post the pictures of
the shows, at times they post shots as the show is happening, or at the
latest, that same evening.





- quote -


Ya think?

It's not like no one else that builds and maintains website doesn't get the
web data from the client.

Clearly if you have other paying clients for your build and maintain website
business they provide you with the information they want on their site. I
see the line being drawn there. That you don't travel and report as part of
your regular business activities for your regular buisness clients. Why
should the travel and reporting activities for this non-paying client all
the sudden be deductible by your business.





- quote -


Sure. Reporting is still unrelated to your business of building and
maintaint web sites.



- quote -


There are lots of methods to get the information necessary without you
traveling to the location.

Someone IS there and that person or persons could call you with scores, take
pictures and e-mail them to you via a cell phone. The local TV station will
have their "Friday Nights Under the Lights" segment covering some 100 high
school football games in North Georgia tonight. They accomplish this feat
with the uncoordinated help of some 100+ people who phone in scores and send
e-mail pictures and film footage of the game. The station keeps their
website updated with everything as it comes in, and some of the pictures and
footage gets airtime on the 11pm news.





Look, it's your return that you will sign as being responsible for. So in
the end it's your call. I don't see the IRS as passing on this specific
activity as being related to your business. And we're not talking
incidental costs here. So the amounts will be noticeable and carry meaning
to the auditor.




--
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Watkinsville, Georgia

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Dick Adams wrote:

snipped....
- quote -

I tried to respond to a query, but found out the email
address was "removed."

ChEAr$,
Harlan

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

On Sep 18, 8:18 am, "Paul Thomas, CPA" <paulthomascp...[at]bellsouth.netwrote:
- quote -

A tournament website is just like an online newspaper, so reporting
duties do fall under maintaining a website. How am I supposed to keep
it current with live scores , match times, pictures by relying on
other people? All this information is what I obtained by being there
and was able to update the website on the fly.

Explain to me how the website would have been current had I not been
there myself?

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Seth <sethb[at]panix.com> wrote:
- quote -

Since when did pro bono work generate revenue?

He built a web site for someone and then went to one
of their events to report on it to be published on the
website. How is that not pro bono? It appears to me
he is probably entitled to at least his out-of-pocket
expenses - EXCEPT for the parking ticket. I write
probably because I do not have all of the facts and
circumstances.

Also there is case law that specifically states the
personal enjoyment of performing services does not
in and of itself disallow deductions for pro bono
services.

If the OP sends me an e-mail, i.e., a valid e-mail
address, I will send him a plethora of information
on the deductibility of pro bono services. It is
too large to post here.

Dick

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article <4163b6dc-5e50-47a9-9998-ebc75c89ec01[at]25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> ,
<nonsense[at]mynonsense.net> wrote:

- quote -

The direct connection between building that particular website,
reporting on the tournament, etc. and having revenue.

Seth

--
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<nonsense[at]mynonsense.net> wrote
- quote -



So it's not reporting on tennis tournaments.

--
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<nonsense[at]mynonsense.net> wrote
- quote -


That sounds like you're a "volunteer" reporter, unrelated to your web
design/hosting business.

Do you see how easy it is to say this is not business related. It's easy
because it's not business related. You're not a reporter, off reporting on
tennis activities. That is unrelated to your business activity of web
design.





- quote -



And that would be non-deductible personal travel.

Deductions denied, end of audit, case closed, now it gets turned over to
collections.





--
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Watkinsville, Georgia

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

On Sep 17, 3:24 pm, "Paul Thomas, CPA" <paulthomascp...[at]bellsouth.netwrote:

- quote -

My business is building websites. So the work done for the tournament
website is entirely related to my business. I dont see how my playing
in the tournament has any bearing upon this. Whether I played or not
does not change the fact that my pro-bono work was 100% related to my
business of website building. What am I missing here?

--
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On Sep 17, 5:35 pm, se...[at]panix.com (Seth) wrote:
- quote -

That is correct. Even if I did not play , I would have to been there
in order to do the live updating of scores, pictures, news etc.

- quote -

Yes becasue I am a tennis fanatic so the pleasure of watching the pros
play would have been worth it. But I don't see how that has anything
to do with whether my expenses are deductible .

--
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<nonsense[at]mynonsense.net> wrote in message
news:6c3b3b24-22f1-49e5-937c-3790ca2ba85e[at]k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

In that case, none of it's deductible - since it's not a qualified activity.

--
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In article <IGdAk.35702$vX2.32802[at]bignews6.bellsouth.net> ,
Paul Thomas, CPA <paulthomascpapc[at]bellsouth.net> wrote:
- quote -

If his sponsorship was doing the website (including the live stuff),
rather than a cash donation, then he did.

- quote -

If my assumption is correct, then he would have some claim to it being
primarily for business.

Seth

--
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<nonsense[at]mynonsense.net> wrote
- quote -



As always with taxes, it depends.

I do pro-bono work for my skeet and trap club, mowing the field, cleaning up
the area, etc. None of that is related to my business and none of my
expenses for doing that work would be deductible by my business or by me
personally.




- quote -



Profit motive for starters. If the work done was related to your business,
then you stand a much better chance of taking the incidental expenses as a
business deduction than if the work was totally unrelated to your trade or
business. If there were no instance of personal pleasure from the travel,
namely you playing in the tournament, then there'd be less concern over the
deduction.

Even if, while you were at teh tournament you were introduced to a comapny
owner from across the state and the two of you had breakfast and discussed
you doing web work for his business. That might make your meal deductible
as a busisiness expense, but the whole trip costs just don't cut it.





- quote -


I'd think the government would squalk at that, as the primary purpose for
the travel wasn't business related.

If they told you you were prohibited from filming and braodcasting the
tournament you would have been there anyway. Right? To play in the
tournament.

And if they told you that you didn't qualify to participate in the
tournament, would you have still gone to the tournament and filmed it for
web broadcast?

You didn't go there to "build and maintain" a website, you went there to
play tennis.
While you were there.....you filmed the tournament and uploaded it to a
website.


You do not have a legitimate agrument for taking a deduction for your
travel, lodging, etc for that trip.





- quote -



But you didn't have to be there to be a sponsor. If you were a sponsor and
didn't get to play, would you have still gone?

You did have to be there to play in the tournament, and that makes the
primary purpose one of pleasure - no deduction.






--
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Watkinsville, Georgia

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

On Sep 16, 8:44 pm, Bob Sandler <bob_use...[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

Does this mean any expenses for work done pro-bono are not deductible?
I dont see how whether my client paid $0, $1 or $1000 should have any
impact on the deductibility of my expenses? Travelling to the
tournament to produce live coverage for the website seem reasonable
for any web designer who builds and mantains websites.

Now my company was mentioned as a sponsor so I did receive some
recognition for my work.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

- quote -

As Seth has pointed out, you are clouding the issue by
talking about both "volunteer expenses" and "business
expenses." Are you looking for a charitable contribution
deduction on Schedule A, or a business expense deduction on
Schedule C?

Since the sponsoring organization is a profit-making
business, a charitable deduction seems to be out of the
question. There is no charitable organization involved.

Since you didn't get paid, what makes the health club your
client? How was this in any way a function of your business?
For that matter, if you considered it a business
undertaking, why did you do it for free? To deduct the
travel expenses (hotel, parking, meals, Internet access) as
business expenses, they have to have some business purpose.

Bob Sandler

--
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In article <af0e02cd-e307-4520-863c-63fb9abff4de[at]f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> ,
<nonsense[at]mynonsense.net> wrote:
- quote -

Yes; but he was talking about deducting "volunteer time".

If he did all the work as part of his business, some of the expenses
would be deductible.

If the trip was charitable, he had to spend most of his time on the
charitable side. If business, it suffices that he was required to be
there.

Seth

--
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On Sep 15, 7:29 pm, "removeps-gro...[at]yahoo.com" <removeps-
gro...[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

I am not clear on why the tournament has to be a 501(c)(3)? It is
being run by a for-profit health club . Aren't business expenses the
same regardless of the profit status of your client?

--
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