removeps-groups[at]yahoo.com wrote:

- quote -

Okay, I see where my confusion was. I had read it as "enter the tax
payments you made FOR April 15" instead of "BY April 15." That changes
things. I'll have to fill out the form again and see how it works out.

Thank you very much for your help.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

"removeps-groups[at]yahoo.com" <removeps-groups[at]yahoo.com> wrote in
news:37551041-57c8-4e4d-88bc-0ec26459230d[at]z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

- quote -

I use an estimated tax excel worksheet sold on the internet. The
benefit is in looking at the various ways to reduce the required
quarterly estimate. In my case the AI method often works best,
but sometimes I switch to 110% prior year, depending on the actual
numbers. Once you are late on a payment, the only way out is if
you have witholding, and increase it, since you have the option of
spreading your witholding equally along the year vice when actually
witheld.

I agree that when you fill out 2210, you can see the effect of
paying a few days late when you use the long method. Consumer
tax software I have used also figures it correctly.

scott s.
...

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

On May 13, 6:37 pm, "wangold...[at]yahoo.com" <wangold...[at]yahoo.comwrote:
- quote -

The instructions for line 19 say "In column (a), enter the tax
payments you made by April 15, 2007", and it will be zero in your
case.

Say you owe $1000 each quarter.
Then all columns of line 18 ("Required Installments") will be $1000.
Say you paid your April 15 installment on May 15 but overpaid by $200,
but will be on time for June 15 at $1000.
So line 19 ("Tax withheld by due date") column (a) will be 0, column
(b) will be $2200.
So line 25 ("Underpayment) column (a) will be $1000, column (b) will
be 0.
And line 26 ("Overpayment") column (a) will be $0, column (b) will be
$200.
Line 27, column (a) will be 30 days.
Line 28, column (a) will be 1000*30/465*0.08 =
5.1612903225806451612903225806452
Line 29, column (a) will be 0.
Line 30, column (a) will be 0.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f2210.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i2210.pdf

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

removeps-groups[at]yahoo.com wrote:

- quote -

I see your logic, but the form doesn't seem to apply to an overpayment
situation.

I filled out the whole form, but when I got to the penalty section, it asks
for the amount UNDERpaid, and since I OVERpaid, there was no place for me
to put the amount. That's why I'm confused.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Bill wrote:


- quote -

Thanks Bill. That may be what I do. I think I have a handle on my
payments now so I should be pretty close to the required amount by the end
of the year. If by some chance they do come after me, I'll show them the
filled-out 2210 form that shows the estimated annualized payments each
quarter vs the amount due. When they see my first quarter was an
overpayment (just a little bit late) and all other payments are correct and
on time, hopefully that will ward them off.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

On May 12, 2:22 pm, "wangold...[at]yahoo.com" <wangold...[at]yahoo.comwrote:

- quote -

Form 2210 is for delayed payments. See the long method of form 2210
(part 4), lines 27 to 30, which ask for the number of days the payment
was late. So if you owe $1000 for April 15, but paid $1200 on May 15,
then the extra $200 is a free loan for the government on which you
don't receive interest, and you have penalty/interest on $1000 from
April 15 to May 15 which is 30 days, and at 6% a year we're looking at
0.06/12*1000=$5. If you leave the penalty field blank, the IRS will
calculate the penalty for you. I don't know how sophisticated their
computer program is and whether they will assess the $5, or more or
less.

What you could do is leave the field blank, and if their penalty is $5
or less then go with it, otherwise file an amended return with your
version of form 2210.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

wangold386[at]yahoo.com posted:

- quote -

The rules exemplified by Form 2210 are one thing; realistic practices
may be something else.

The following is not tax law, but practical experience:

I filed exclusively by making Estimated Tax payments for 15 years --
until I got smart a few years ago, and started arranging for withholding
from my RMD's. However, over that 15-year period, I "forgot" at least 4
or 5 quarterly payments. Suddenly, in late August, I would realize
there wasn't a payment made in June -- or in mid November, I would wake
up to the fact that I missed a September 15 payment.

In every case, I immediately wrote a payment and sent it in with the
"coupon" for the date which I had missed. I was also careful to make
sure my total estimated payments came _very_ close to the amount due.
Sometimes, I owed $40 or $50 ... sometimes I got a minor refund.

(My most triumphant year, was the time I got a $1 refund ... which was
the first time I "tried out" direct deposit -- figuring I could live
without the $1 -- which turned out to be no problem. I was then able to
promise taxpayers that direct deposit worked, and fast.)

Never did I receive a notice of delinquency or a bill for "under-" or
"late-payment" of my Estimated Tax.

So pay attention to the rules, but don't sweat the little things. If
you make the rest of your payments timely, and your calculations are
correct that you will wind up overpaying, I think it's safe to say you
won't get penalized.

Bill

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Hi, I recently learned about estimated taxes and consequently was late for
my first (April 15, 2008) payment. I called the IRS about this and they
said thay when I file my 2008 return to include a Form 2210 to figure out
the penalty. This weekend, I ran through a sample 2210 and realized that
my late first payment was an OVERpayment for what I owed that quarter.
Upon closer inspection, it looks like Form 2210 is only for UNDERpayments,
not DELAYED payments. Since I didn't underpay, will I still need to file a
2210? And will I be assessed a penalty for the delayed payment? Thanks

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >