In article <04ac9325-232c-4d56-897c-d2857d2685ef[at]m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> ,
Bob G <bobjames27[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:
- quote -

Start by naming the bank, to protect other people.

The more painful it is for them not to do the right thing, the more
likely they are to do the right thing.

Seth

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"Bob G" <bobjames27[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote
- quote -

Wow, interesting! Good for you for following up on all this.
I bet your posts here are going to help someone else in the
future.

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All's well that ends well!
The Bank of Oklahoma acknowledged it was at fault and found another
company that accepted our April 15 check and started an IRA for us.
Alliance-Bernstein remained intransigent, even though the bank tried
to reason with them.
Thanks all for your help!

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<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

In article
<42d02430-d580-4989-b16e-145c09a76277[at]a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> ,
Bob G <bobjames27[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:

- quote -

I have never just handed over a check as a contribution to my IRA
without getting some sort of receipt showing that the bank received $xxx
as an IRA contribution for a given tax year and my account number.

Hopefully your wife received such a receipt showing the date, amount,
and year for the contribution. I cannot imagine a bank just taking
money and not giving any kind of receipt.

--
-Ernie-

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Thanks for all your responses.

My wife has clarified the entire sequence of events and I expect it
may make a difference in your advice.

She had an existing IRA with Alliance-Bernstein (AB). On April 15 she
called their number, obtained from a regular account status statement
recently received in the mail, and told them she wanted to contribute
another $5,000 for tax purposes. They told her to get in touch with
one of their representatives, a Mr. KJ, whose name was listed as
“Advisor” on the same AB account statement, and who works for the Bank
of Oklahoma (we live in Oklahoma City).

She called this gentleman and he told her to go to the nearest branch
office. There she dealt with a young man, who wanted to confirm
everything and called KJ on the spot. KJ was not available and he was
referred to his assistant, Ms EM, also a Bank of Oklahoma employee.

Ms EM said everything was in order, to accept my wife’s check for
$5,000 and to “inter-office” it to her. My wife then wrote a check for
$5,000 dated on that date, April 15, and left it with the young man.

A few days later we got the check back from AB with a note that it had
been received past the April 15 deadline, sorry. We called AB and they
said nothing could be done. We then called KJ at the Bank of Oklahoma
and again were referred to his assistant, Ms EM. She said that the
check wasn’t mailed until the next day because “all these companies
give a few days’ leeway”. There was nothing she could do, sorry.

That’s where it stands. We’re going to the bank tomorrow morning and
see what can be done. We’re incurring additional taxes of $1,250,
which includes federal and Oklahoma state taxes.

My opinion is that the check was accepted on the 15th of April by an
authorized representative of AB and therefore it qualifies for a tax
deduction. The fact that Mrs EM, acting as the assistant of the person
who appears on the AB statement as AB’s “Advisor”, accepted the check
on the 15th, constitutes actual and legal acceptance of the IRA
contribution on that date.

I would appreciate your comments. Thanks.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

"Dick Adams" <rdadams[at]panix.com> wrote in message
news:fucr0p$ol0$1[at]reader2.panix.com...
- quote -

Effectively DELIVERED it. Wasn't it handed to the agent?

- quote -

I agree wth this approach. However, what are the facts:

1) Who is the custodian? The bank or Alliance Bernstein.
2) Is the bank an agent for Alliance Bernstein?

If the answers are to the first question, the bank, or the second question,
yes, then it looks to me like you did satisfy all the necessary
requirements.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

"Bob G" <bobjames27[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote
- quote -

Something that might make this moot: How much were you
planning to put in for tax year 2008? You say you were
trying to contribute $5k for you and your wife for 2007.
It's possible you and your wife are eligible to contribute
$10k for 2008. See
http://beginnersinvest.about.com/cs/...ntribution.htm
for starters.

If you have not already, I recommend getting documentation
of the bank consultant's apology. Record him on the phone;
get an email from him; whatever it takes. It is an admission
of wrongdoing. Not that it would help legally (though it
might). More that it could help in general when you plead
your case to the consultant's boss.

- quote -

http://www.investopedia.com/articles...05/021505.asp:
"Similar to your tax return, a postmark date is considered
timely; therefore, if you send your contribution in the mail
by April 15, you will have met the deadline, even if your
financial institution receives the contribution after April
15."

Granted this is not the IRS talking, but I suspect it is
based on IRS verbage or cases. If a postmark is considered
timely, then it seems to me the evidence you have (witnesses
saw you at the bank; the consultant says he received the
check on Apr. 15; etc.) would also support an argument of
timeliness.

I keep in mind that the government /wants/ people to save in
their IRAs. It's not like there is a government policy of
wanting to nail IRA contributors with obvious (and
documented) good intentions.

- quote -

Only if, as you say, all fails. I'd keep probing for the
best answer. I am not sure we're there yet.

I imagine asking Alliance Bernstein to backdate when it was
the local bank's fault is a stretch. But I wonder if it is
legal for the local bank to which you originally went holds
IRAs and it might backdate a deposit into one for you.
Probably not, but do get this answered.

- quote -

http://www.themoneyblogs.com/dontmes...minder---.html
for one indicates they will eventually pick up on it.

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Bob G wrote:
- quote -

Yes, but wait until your original return is processed (timing depends on
whether you e-filed or not).

- quote -

Eventually, but you will probably get the refund first, then many months
later a letter stating you owe some of it back plus interest.


-Mark Bole

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Thank you all for your replies.
We'll be going to the bank Monday and see what they say.
If all fails, should we file an amended return to cancel the IRA
deduction?
Or will the IRS pick it up automatically and deduct it themselves?
We won't be owing a balance, our refund will be smaller.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Bob G wrote:
- quote -

Actually, the bank may owe you a lot more, depending upon your age.
Your 2007 contribution would have grown tax free for x number of years.
You may have had an oral contract with your bank. If so, you
definitely have recourse against the bank, but you made need a lawyer to
assert your claim, and not many lawyers will take such a small case.
Try sending a letter to the banks legal department, explaining that you
relied upon your consultant's representation, and that you could have
mailed the check yourself. By the way, this should not be considered
legal advice. Check with your local bar association.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Bob G <bobjames27[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:

- quote -

My take is that the consultant is an agent for Alliance Berstein
and so when you wrote the check you effectively mailed it and it
is good.

That argument is going to get you no where unless one of you
shows up at the bank and gets the contribution remailed with
a letter of explanation from a officer of the bank.

Even then it may not fly. But it is worth the effort.

Dick

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<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Bob G wrote:
- quote -

bank officer you can identify, explaining why you are closing your
account and moving it to another bank. Give them a week to respond
before doing so.

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Bob G wrote:
- quote -

That's a lawyer question, not a tax one.

I'd say you're chances are slim and none and Slim just left town for
anything other than the apology you apparently already received. Maybe
you could cry on the branch manager's shoulder and get a $25 bond or
something but I see no way they're going to make up the purported loss.
Only way I'd see even a glimmer of a small claims court winning would
be if you had a written promise they would ensure they took it to the PO
and see that it was deposited in a box marked for that day postmark.
Making a verbal statement of that sort stand up just ain't agonna'
happen imo.

$0.02, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., ...

--

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On Apr 18, 3:12 pm, Bob G <bobjame...[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:

- quote -

Is that $850 for federal tax on the $5000? If you file an amended
return as early as possible, interest on money you owe will be as
small as possible. It's strange that they looked at the postmark on
the envelope.

- quote -

Maybe you can sue. But at least you have an early start for tax year
2008 .

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- quote -

Thanks. I know there's nothing we can do about an IRA. My question is,
what can we do against the bank? Wasn't it a breach of promise on
their part? We have suffered damage and inconvenience as a consequence
of their negligence.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

"Bob G" wrote:

- quote -

Learn from the experience that your procrastination doesn't necessarily
create a sense of emergency in others. You might want to get things
together a little faster for 2008.

There's nothing you can do about making a 2007 traditional IRA contribution
at this point.
--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

My wife went to a local bank on April 15 and opened a $5,000
traditional IRA, paid with a check dated April 15, was re-assured by
the consultant that everything would be mailed to the financial
institution (Alliance Bernstein) in time to claim a deduction for
2007.

Today we got the check back via FedEx from Alliance Bernstein, with a
note saying that the mailing was postmarked April 16. This will cost
us an additional $850 in taxes.

We called the bank consultant and got an apology.

What can we do?

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >