On Feb 18, 8:06 pm, "Phil Marti" <prm20...[at]verizon.net> wrote:
- quote -


Again thanks to all. Things mentioned/suggested that I had not
considered. I was aware of CAP Appeal option but for some reason I
find it simpler to go CDP route.

Although many of my collection clients would like to avoid a Lien they
rarely have the leverage or the money to make a proposal that would be
so good the IRS would not file one anyway at some point to protect
their interest/priority. As I mentioned earlier, I much prefer
criminal tax/grand jury/joint investigation cases.

--
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"Michael" wrote:

- quote -

R/O and SPS advisor in Chicago from '71 to '79. R/O group manager and SPS
unit manager in Los Angeles from '86 to '88. The rest of the time was at
National Office. Retired during the down-I-mean-rightsizing buyouts in '97.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

There is another way to get to Appeals if you are unable to get into
an acceptable installment agreement with Taxpayer Service and that is
the the CAP program using Form 9423.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

On Feb 17, 7:13 pm, "Phil Marti" <prm20...[at]verizon.net> wrote:
- quote -


Thanks for your incisive feedback. To me ACS has taken most of the joy
and professionalism that back in our day (I'm ex-IRS Regional later
District Counsel) existed in the collection function. There are still
some good local ROs but if you get a bad one it's very bad.

Though most of my cases/clients involve Joint criminal/civil
investigations, to me with the few Collection cases I accept, the only
goal that makes sense if ACS is involved is somehow get to the Appeals
Office where the case is often resolved appropriately. Of course the
old-time AO's hate doing collection-type issues but they tend to be
fair about it.

Thanks again for your feedback. It seems my instincts to just wait for
the FINAL Notice was on course.

PS--In what offices did you work during your IRS career? I was Philly
for 16 years.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Michael wrote:
- quote -

Absent accelerated collection (e.g repeater delinquent, high
dollar) the CP 504 Notice of Intent to Levy was probably
issued before the delinquent account made its way into ACS
or Field Collection. Once the account is in collection
status, one or more attempts will normally be made to
contact the taxpayer before issuance of the Collection Due
Process (CDP) Final Notice. I can't cite any numbers, but,
from personal experience, a very large number of collection
cases are settled at this point in the process. If
resolution is not forthcoming, the next written
correspondence the taxpayer is likely to receive will be the
CDP Final Notice regarding levy (LT11 from ACS, L-1058 from
the Revenue Officer.)

Issuance of the CP 504 gives the Service the right to file a
Notice of Federal Tax Lien. If your client's intent is to
avoid the filing of the lien, there may well be harm in
telling them to sit back and wait. After the lien is filed,
the taxpayer will be entitled to a Collection Due Process
hearing in regard to the lien.

The CP 504 will trigger an increase in the accrual of
failure to pay penalty from 1/2% to 1% per month, so if the
taxpayer's intent is to enter into an agreement to pay,
he/she/they may save penalty dollars by responding and
resolving upon receipt of first notice.

Though the notice and hearing process may appear to be a
huge waste of everyone's time, it is required by the IRC
(Sec 6331) and is not arbitrary.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

"Michael" wrote:

- quote -

I'm blissfully ignorant of the process, having retired from IRS Collection
before Bill of Rights 3. I do know a little about human nature on both
sides of the table, which I doubt has changed.

If everyone on both sides is behaving well this shouldn't be an issue. The
taxpayer can or cannot pay, the IRS employee makes demands accordingly, and
the taxpayer performs or doesn't.

If a taxpayer is hellbent on getting to Appeals without trying to resolve
the issues, or after giving up trying, it's in the IRS's interest as well as
the taxpayer's to get him there ASAP. Otherwise you're stuck with no
movement in any direction on the case.

When I supervised TFRP claims processing, the issues had been fully
addressed, and it was clear that the taxpayer wanted to file a refund suit,
we disallowed them immediately so the taxpayer could get to court without
waiting. What's the point of delaying? Were I still a revenue officer
dealing with a taxpayer who wanted to get to Appeals I'd give the taxpayer
whatever specific notice was required to get to Appeals so we could get
moving.

ACS doesn't lend itself to creative thought. You're probably butting your
head against a brick wall by trying to speed up the process. Your advice to
just wait for the trigger notice is probably the best you can do.

I'd make one request for them to issue the magic notice, but then I'd just
back off and wait. I'd also drop the Commissioner a note about the evident
flaw in the process.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Clients of mine, dissatisfied with the ACS process, have occasionally
filed a CDP Appeal after they received a Notice of Intent to Levy, but
not the FINAL Notice of Intent to Levy. These "premature" CDP Appeals
were rejected and the client told no Appealable event (Notice-wise)
has occurred.

I have informally told them to simply wait for the NEXT notice which
will in fact (probably?) be the FINAL Notice of Intent to Levy. Is
there any harm in telling them to sit back and wait for the Final
Notice?

For Appeal minded taxpayers I wonder how few/many cases are resolved
without an Appeal between the Notice of Intent to Levy and the Final
Notice of Intent. Unless I'm missing something I feel it is a huge
waste of everyone's time to bounce a "premature" Appeal that late in
the case knowing that (I'd guess) 90%+ are eventually refiled anyway a
few weeks later.

Any thoughts/ experiences appreciated.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >