On Jan 5, 4:38 pm, Michael <Tempr...[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
- quote -


Bearing in mind my experience has been mostly with IRS Criminal Cases
and in US Tax Court matters--and that I was definitely "sucked into"
accepting this case as a "favor" to the Court--I have a request that
may sound simple but I have not yet been able to get what I need (time
pressures too).

The Judge has asked me to file a Formal Responsive Pleading to the
Government's Complaint/Order to Show Cause regarding the sale of this
guy's home. I have verbally asked for complete Discovery of the
Government's File which the Judge also wants in writing.

Does anyone have a Link to the Proper Form of Response for US District
Court ("admits" "denies" "alleges" "moves", etc.) based (I assume) on
the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure? I know the rules of evidence and
the Fed. Rules of Criminal Procedure quite well but am clueless on
properly filing a responsive Pleading or a proper request for
documents.

A link would be great; a blank Form for Response and/or Discovery
would be great. A link to Pleadings actually filed in such a case (or
any Order to Show Cause case in Fed. Court) would be a home run for
me. Yes of course I have a PACER account but have never had to use it
before. Usually know what the heck I'm doing!!!

Thanks for any help or guidance.

And remember: no good deed goes unpunished!!! [When the Judge's
Deputy originally asked me to help, saying I could decline, I said "of
course I'll help but the Judge must treat me kind of like either a Pro
Se party or fresh out of law school attorney" --guess how that has
turned out??]

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On Jan 3, 8:35 pm, Mike Wellman <irsfi...[at]aol.com> wrote:
- quote -


Thanks for a boatload of invaluable tips. I am pushing the Judge hard
for a full discovery order and I want the RO's personnel file too.
I've dealt with him (RO) before he is, as Phil says he was when he
first started, a knuckle dragging thug. He is ruthless, heartless and
usually lawless.

I was most heartened to read Mike's opinion about JK Harris and agree
completely with his experiences with them. I've gotten many clients
over the years who they completely dropped the ball on. From the many
clients I've gotten on the rebound, JKH's style is speak to a saleman,
large retainer (2,000-8,000) file lowball Offer in Compromise to buy
months of time and then duck and run.

Because of my largely Criminal Tax practice I speak often and amicably
with many Special Agents. On several occasions I have meant to ask
them why they let this massively improper behavior and abuse of
procedures that JKH often perpetrates continue. In the Mays Landing NJ
office IRS is on the first floor of the building JK Harris is on the
4th Floor!!!

Again thanks for your help. I'll keep you posted.

PS--The Judge had better not sign a complete pro bono order because
the client did pay JK Harris and has a paid family attorney too.

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On Jan 3, 6:28�pm, "Phil Marti" <prm20...[at]verizon.net> wrote:
- quote -

You should request a copy of the entire collection file including the
Revenue Officer's Case History log. That will tell you if all the
checklists were followed. JKH is reason enough for a delay. At some
point, the Director of practice or Justice Department needs to shut
them down.

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Michael wrote:
- quote -


You're certainly on the right track in trying to handle this at that
level. Please let us know how your fair. IMWTK!

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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"Michael" wrote:

- quote -

I'll offer the following for your "for what it's worth" file. Perspective:
I retired from IRS Collection 11 years ago. When I left, the highest level
of review mandated before seizure of a residence was the District Director.
(Taxpayer Bill of Rights 2 was the last version before I retired.)

Some things haven't changed since 1971, when I started as a baby
knuckledragging thug. Seizure of a primary residence was always a last
resort. It's always been a public relations nightmare. It's pursued only
when there's absolutely no other way. More than once I said, "He can stay
in that house until he dies as long as he gives us an extension of the
statute."

Also unchanged is the fact that it's difficult, but not impossible, for the
IRS to warn the taxpayer that he's getting hosed by his rep, which is what I
suspect happened here. IIRC, there were three offers in compromise? At a
certain point even the kinder, gentler IRS is going to say "enough."

Ability to pay should be pretty apparent to you from the paperwork required
for offers. Be sure to vet the financial statements to make sure they
weren't fudged.

It seems to me the most potential for you is the representation issue, with
an intense focus on what the taxpayer knew and didn't know.

While IRS is required to deal with the taxpayer's authorized rep, there are
also prescribed bypass procedures when the rep isn't cooperating. They're
in the Internal Revenue Manual and referenced in the pre-seizure
considerations I posted a link for previously.

If the rep wasn't cooperating and nobody ever told the taxpayer, you may be
able to make a case for delay.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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On Jan 2, 5:19 pm, Harlan Lunsford <hnslunsf...[at]bellsouth.net> wrote:
- quote -

Criminal Tax cases and in US Tax Court often on civil tax cases (plus
have years of Administrative experience). Never on Order to Show Cause
right before a seizure of personal residence.

My client just disclosed to me today he had used JK Harris until he
became very unhappy. I'm still trying to get something resembling a
file and reached out to you folks in the hopes that one of you, unlike
me, had actually defended one of these cases and could give me some
tips.

My Plan A is to contact Department of Justice Attorney (trial counsel)
and try to belatedly get this back in negotiation mode (instead of in
enforcement mode). Client insists that he relied on JK harris they
dropped the ball (I take no position yet on this, just relating what
client said).

Again any tips appreciated. I took this case pro bono. Nice--Harris
got paid I do it for free!!!

--
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Michael wrote:
- quote -

resort where cooperation has been almost non existant. Are you sure it
is IRS who is taking action and not the state? Some states are TOUGHT!

I would dare say that the man has not had qualified counsel in this
matter, not even in the OIC process.

Since there is two weeks at hand, by all means suggest to him (is he
your client perchance?) that he hire an attorney immediately. Then
the attorney can work hand in hand with a qualified local tax pro to
help resolve the issue. Contact either an Enrolled Agent (EA) or
Certified Public Accountant (CPA).

The case sounds tough, but there must be more to it than meets the eye.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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On Jan 1, 9:12 pm, Michael <Tempr...[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
- quote -



Before the IRS gets around to seizing a personal residence, there are
many steps & procedures they must follow.
Did you, the taxpayer respond to & cooperate with the IRS?
Seizing a personal residence is not the first step in the IRS'
collection process,
Or did you avoid, not respond to previous IRS attempts to collect?

If you have had offers in compromise rejected, chances are your only
option at this time is the taxpayer advocate's office



___________________________________
<<< Benjamin Yazersky, CPA [NJ & NY] > > -----> real address on hobokeni or hobokenx <-----





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"Michael" wrote:

- quote -

See http://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/ch10s01.html

Even better would be to hire yourself a competent representative, as has
already been mentioned.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

On Jan 1, 8:12�pm, Michael <Tempr...[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

If the case has reached this point, it has been grossly mishandled
thus far. A professional, or another professional, needs to be
retained immediately.

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<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

They were/are required to take before getting a Judge to Order the
seizure of a primary residence of a 68 year old man, poor health (but
still working) whose wife passed away in the midst of the procedures
(3 Offers in Compromise rejected, cooperation by taxpayer--then
Revenue Officer went to Home Seizure mode) used to try to head this
off.

Is there a checklist of everything the Service was required to do
before resorting to this or do they
have unlimited discretion? Seems there should be a progression to be
followed before Rejected offer in Compromises--Seizure of Home.

Matter set for Order to Show Cause in two weeks.

Thanks for any links, assistance.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >