Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:

- quote -

I would suggest that you roll the 10 annual TIAA payments
into a CREF IRA at TIAA-CREF itself, thereby avoiding the
questions from the other brokerage. You can periodically
rollover sums from the CREF IRA to the other brokerage, if
you desire.

<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:

- quote -

My original reply seems to have been lost in the ether....

My analysis of TIAA TPAs tells me that they are not
substantially equal periodic payments. As such, they are
eligible for rollover. It doesn't matter whether they are 9
years or 10 years.

<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

bono9763[at]yahoo.com <fai6s8$is7$1[at]panix1.panix.com> wrote:
- quote -

And if you specify that the payments should be on August 25,
the first payment is August 27, 2007 and the last payment is
August 25, 2016, a period of 9 years - 1 day (but still in
10 different calendar years). To avoid that, specify that
payments should be made on December 31, starting in 2011.

Seth

<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

"Daniel P. B. Smith" <see-my-sig-ple...[at]hotmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

The simplest definition means 10 tax years. So 10 payments
paid once a year covers 10 tax years, but only spans 9 years
+ 1 day.

<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >

IRS Publication 575 for 2006, page 26, describing what
payments are eligible for rollover to an IRA says:
"Except... Any of a series of substantially equal
distributions paid at least once a year over... c. A period
of 10 years or more."

What is "a period of 10 years or more?" In particular, how
does the IRS regard a series of ten annual installments,
each falling on the same calendar day of a different tax
year (so that the elapsed time of the whole series of
payments is nine years and one day?)

I, like hundreds of thousands of others, have a TIAA
"Traditional" retirement account. Assets in this account
cannot be liquidated as a lump sum, but only via a "transfer
payout annuity," which takes the form of ten annual roughly
equal installments, each made on the same calendar day.

The transfer payout annuity is described in a TIAA brochure
available online at
https://www3.tiaa-cref.org/bookstore/detail.do?id=59

"Tax Issues" on page 9 says "CAN I ROLL OVER MY CASH PAYMENTS TO AN IRA?
Yes. If cash payments from a TPA are available to you, you can make
direct rollovers to an IRA."

Two TIAA reps have told me that there is no problem because
the payout period is only 9 years and one day. Both have
noted (and I have confirmed) that a TPA once consisted of 11
installments and was shortened to only 10; they said this
was done precisely to avoid the IRS restriction.

But when queried about the issue, the brokerage that will be
receiving the payments said:

"The client is correct that the TIAA brochure mandating
transfers over a 10 year period appears to be in direct
contradiction to the IRS determination in Publication 575
that Transfers taking 10 or more years are not eligible as a
rollover distributions.

As the ultimate question refers to an IRS determination, we
would suggest that the you request a 'Written Determination'
(also referred to as a 'Private Letter Ruling') from the
IRS."

Two IRS telephone representatives, the second of whom called
me back several days after the initial inquiry and I assume
to have been a higher echelon than the first, believe that
the TPA schedule would be considered by the IRS to be "a
period of ten years." Neither of them could point me to any
clarification or official definition of what exactly is
meant by "a period of ten years." One of them said all she
could do was read me the actual language of the tax code,
which says simply "a period of ten years" without any
further clarification of what exactly is meant by that. They
too suggested a "private letter determination" but this
appears to be a very expensive process, not something anyone
can get just by making a simple request.

I am, of course, pursuing this with the TIAA, as I can't
believe they didn't get such an IRS determination
themselves, but with no results so far. (Told they'd send me
something but that I should wait a month... waited a
month... told that the query seemed to have gotten lost and
they'd re-initiate it... etc. etc.)

I can't quite believe this isn't a straightforward question,
as it must have come up literally thousands of times before.
I keep thinking there must be some detailed description
somewhere of just how the IRS counts "a period of ten
years."

Thoughts?

--
Daniel P. B. Smith, usenet2006[at]dpbsmith.com
"Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print!
Sample chapter at http://www.dpbsmith.com/messy.html
Buy it at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1403314063/

<< ------------------------------------------------------- > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ------------------------------------------------------- >