- quote -

Yes, doing the right thing is always morally correct,
regardless of the motivation. The issue of motivation comes
into play not in determining whether the action is morally
correct, but whether the actor deserves credit for having
acted morally.

Assuming that helping the elderly and those in need is both
morally correct and the right thing to do, if your dog picks
up your elderly neighbor's newspaper every morning from the
end of the driveway and brings it to the back door, your dog
has done the right thing and his actions are morally
correct; however, if the only reason your dog does this is
because he knows that he'll get a treat from your neighbor
when he shows up with the paper, then your dog is not a
moral agent and does not deserve credit for acting morally,
even though he has done the right thing, and has therefore
acted in a morally correct manner.

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Ian Pilcher wrote:
- quote -

Which brings to mind Abraham Lincoln, that man in the White
HOuse during the Late Unpleasantness, aka the War of
Northern Aggression:

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of
the people all the time, but you can't fool all of the
people all of the time"

Can you imagine next time that that tax attorney and the
accountant meet on a social occasion?

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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"Bill" <an_ordinary_guy_158[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

Okay, I certainly wouldn't have others inform on me, so does
that mean I shouldn't inform on others?

I don't see this as a silly question; they should not have
committed tax fraud, but having done so, is it right to hurt
them for it?

It is not even a matter of turning the other check, but more
like rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. (new
testament is not my strength, but I think these are more or
less right.)

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Geoff wrote:

- quote -

Find a different attorney.

--
================================================== ===========
Ian Pilcher arequipeno[at]gmail.com
================================================== ===========

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, > << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties > << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts > << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy > << are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >

Geoff wrote:

- quote -

Find a different attorney.

--
================================================== ===========
Ian Pilcher arequipeno[at]gmail.com
================================================== ===========

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spamtrap[at]lexregia.com (Stuart=A0A.=A0Bronstein) posted:
- quote -

Noting the good will implied by your wink, I decided to post
an expression of my appreciation for your comment.

I suppose the first and last word on the entire topic is
embodied in "Do unto others as you would have them do unto
you."

So even though it's improbable that I can do anything
tangible for you, Stu, we can certainly enjoy the good
fellowship implicit in this entire endeavor (i.e., providing
tax help for those who ask).

Bill :-)

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an_ordinary_guy_158[at]hotmail.com (Bill) wrote:

- quote -

Dear Abby I once said something similar - the test of
someone's character is how he treats someone who can do him
no good.

Can you do anything for me, Bill? ;-)

Stu

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[Note: OP and previous comments omitted.]

This seemed an appropriate thread in which to contribute the
observation that "Ethics is what you do when nobody is
looking."

Very wise words, which I've never seen attributed, but could
certainly be classed among the famous "words to live by."

Bill

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"Mike Wellman" <irsfixer[at]aol.com> wrote:
- quote -

You are absolutely correct, that is about my motivation. If I
liked them I wouldn't even think about turning them in. It's
not even the money; if I wanted the money I wouldn't hesitate;
hypothetically of course. (It's not that I don't want the
money, hypothetically; just that the dilemma would be the same
even without a reward.)

But it is a moral issue nevertheless. Is doing the right
thing morally correct regardless of motivation? On the other
hand, would it be a moral imperative if I liked them? It is
all too confusing. Just glad it isn't real!

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"Geoff" <G...[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

But I mean,

- quote -

To be blunt, I really do not think it is a moral question
for you (see new Jag). I am not saying not to report them,
I am just saying be honest about your motivation. You want
to see them suffer and you want money.

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TURN THEM ALL IN. Even if "common practice", tax fraud
actively seeks to steal money from the US government and
transfer it to private individuals. Of course when I say US
government, I mean the citizen's of the US! Even if its
only $100, its $100 we don't have to spend on roads or
education or thousands other beneficial programs. Your
relatives are not stealing from the IRS, they're stealing
from you and me and your kids and all the other
beneficiaries of tax funded US programs. They are literally
taking money out of your wallet. Do you ordinarily allow
others to steal from your wallet as they see fit?

Of course there's more to this world than money. I am confident that
we all strive to MAXIMIZE our UTILITY (homo economicus). Utility
(read:happiness) is not simply a function of money. Fame, the warm
fuzzy feeling of charitable giving, love, and not being pestered to
insanity by your wife, all help comprise overall utility. You may
decide that some of the intangible things you value will be too
greatly compromised by reporting your relatives. If your wife will
hate you forever, have you really maximized your happiness by turning
them in? I doubt it. The accountant, in particular, has likely done
this many times, not just once (all the more reason to turn him in).
You should keep in mind that if the accountant is investigated, it
will likely turn up more fraud that may harm people you did not intend
to report.

Hopefully, your wife will understand just how important it is curtail
tax fraud and who really suffers from the abuse. The decision is one
that only you can make. If you thoroughly analyze ALL the consequences
of the potential outcomes one should stand out from the rest. Your
choice is dictated by the option that best benefits you totally
(socially, morally, financially, etc). As a utility maximizer myself,
I only hope you come to the decision that best benefits me!

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Geoff wrote:

- quote -

One question comes to mind. Would you do it (inform IRS)
provided there WERE no reward?

If the answer is yes, go ahead, and disclaim the reward.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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This is purely hypothetical situation.
Lets say I am in a position to inform on relatives I despise.
The amount is substantial, as would be the informer's fee;
were it real.

Suppose I spoke to a tax attorney. Perhaps he says that
with the evidence I have the IRS would have no trouble
sustaining fraud charges. However, he thinks very highly of
the accountant involved and would really hate to see him
lose his license over this; so his preference would be for
me to forget about it. Without going into detail, it might
be the type of thing that happens all the time; but no one
ever documents it like this, so the IRS normally ignores it
since they could never prove anything. The attorney read it
over repeatedly in disbelief that anyone would allow
documents like these to exist.

My wife would think informing is petty and small minded, and
I ought to show that I am a bigger person that this. She
agrees they are despicable and wouldn't mind seeing them get
in trouble, but doesn't want to be part of it. But I mean,
Geez; they DID defraud the government, and it WOULD pay for
a new Jag; hypothetically.

This is more of a moral question than a tax question, but I
don't think it is really OT.

Moderator:
I, for one, do not think it's either petty or small minded
If this person burglarized a liquor store, would tell the
police? It's theft either way. Don't worry about the CPA.
He's either in the dark or should know better.

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