joeu2004[at]hotmail.com wrote:
- quote -

It really makes almost no difference at all. If you get an
FIN for any trust that is revocable you should probably file
an informational return showing that all trust income is
taxed to the grantor. Aside from that it really doesn't
matter.

- quote -

None that I'm aware of. Everything else is exactly the
same.

- quote -

No, there is no conflict. You must get an FIN for any trust
that becomes irrevocable. When one spouse dies that
spouse's portion of the estate goes into a separate trust
and that trust is revocable. So you need a new FIN. The
portion of the estate that belongs to the spouse that's
still alive goes into a trust that remains revocable. So no
new FIN is needed.

- quote -

If she's been using an FIN she should probably continue
using it. Again the only difference is an informational
return showing zero income and saying that she's the one who
gets taxed. It shouldn't be a big deal either way.

Stu

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"Herb Smith" <smithff33[at]aol.com> wrote:
- quote -

The income certainly all goes on the Grantor's return. But
years ago I had been told that the trust can use either the
Grantor's SS# or get its own tax ID#. Of course, any 1041
would show no income and indicate it's a grantor trust.

Stu

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Stuart A. Bronstein wrote:
- quote -

If it is "can", under what circumstances would it be better
to acquire a separate FIN instead of using the SSN? I am
thinking specifically of the Survivor's Trust, if that makes
any difference. (But we all seem to agree that it should
not.)

Using the grantor's SSN seems to be "obviously" better since
it does not require filing a separate tax return (for
__that__ trust). There might be other advantages to using
the SSN. If so, can someone elaborate?

On the other hand....

Herb Smith wrote:

- quote -

Since this differs from Stuart's response, I hope some other
people will chime in with a tie-breaker.

I believe the answer is "can", not "must", because my mother
claims that her Survivor's Trust (since my father died) has
its own FIN, not her SSN. She might be wrong. But if it
is true, I want to build an argument for using the SSN. Or
is it too late now? The Survivor's Trust has been in effect
for nearly 5 years.

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nomail1983[at]hotmail.com wrote:

- quote -

You MUST use the Grantor's SSN for such a trust, which is a
disregarded entity while the grantor is alive. All income,
gains and losses etc are reported on the grantor's ordinary
tax return (1040), not a trust tax return (1041), which
necessitates the use of the SSN.

- quote -

The grantor is still alive and the trust is revocable.
Whether or not the grantor is the trustee is not relevant.

- quote -

Yes, once the grantor dies, the SSN can no longer be used
for the IRREVOCABLE trust remaining. That is a new tax
entity and MUST have its own TIN for subsequent reporting of
income, gains and losses.

- quote -

No, the Survivor's trust is reported under the SSN of the SURVIVOR.

- quote -

See previous answer.

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nomail1983[at]hotmail.com wrote:

- quote -

It's can. But in either case the grantor is takes on all
trust income.

- quote -

Nothing to do with it. It's a "grantor trust" because it's
revocable, which means that, irrespective of anything else,
all income is taxed to the grantor.

- quote -

Must. After the grantor dies the trust becomes irrevocable
and transforms into a separate tax paying entity.

- quote -

The survivor's trust, while the survivor is alive, is still
revocable. After the survivor dies it becomes irrevocable,
too.

- quote -

Must when the survivor dies.

- quote -

Trust law with respect to taxes is based on federal law, not
state law.

Stu

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My understanding is: for an individual revocable living
trust, while the grantor is living, we "can" or "must"
(which?) use the grantor's SSN for the trust. Right?

Or does that depend on some conditions, for example whether
or not the grantor is the only initial trustee?

If we use the grantor's SSN for the trust while the grantor
is living, "should" or "must" (which?) we get a FIN for the
trust after the grantor dies?

Are the answers the same for a Suvivor's Trust (part of an
original AB Trust), which is a revocable living trust after
the first spouse dies?

That is, when one spouse dies, we "must" get a FIN for the
Decedent's Trust. When "must" or "should" (which?) we get a
FIN for the Survivor's Trust?

I am referring to trusts for Calif residents, if that makes
a difference (surprise!).

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