"John Hyde" <EJhyd[at]netscape.net> wrote in message
news:vg9902lek5aqdi0ub2ltah5busqjicit63[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

Unless the decedent was married to someone other than the girlfriend, or
incompetent (not likely if he was employed at the time the beneficiary card
was filled out), then it will very difficult (if not impossible) to get the
money away from the girlfriend he lived with for 20 years that was named as
the beneficiary.

"John Hyde" <EJhyd[at]netscape.net> wrote:

- quote -

Assuming that OP wants lawyers, rather than the girlfriend, to get the
money. Your mileage may have varied, but that's how these things usually
turn out when potential heirs slug it out in court.

I cast no aspersions on OP, but a disinterested third-party would certainly
wonder why the family wasn't concerned about this poor incompetent's being
taken advange of by "that woman" while he was still alive.

Forgery is a different matter, but before engaging lawyers I'd contact the
witnesses or notary that has been required on every beneficiary designation
that I've ever signed.
--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

"A.G. Kalman" <glendale202-mtmtax[at]yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ikg602t6ojhdf0rdjafronv86f0qg86ea9[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

To nitpick:

One's own estate (The estate of XXX) can be named as the beneficiary of your
401K (and life insurance policy).

on 2/27/2006 10:20 AM Mark A said the following:
- quote -

Excellent advice. But that is just a start. Even if he named her, that
may not be the end of it. I was able once to get an insurance policy
procceeds away from the "girlfriend" because there was evidence that
either 1) the deceased was incompetent when he named her or 2) she
forged the document. (Our facts supported either scenario, but the third
possibility - the beneficiary designation being legit - was a distant
third place) If the 401k has been assigned to the girlfriend, then you
should talk to a lawyer.

JH

[This followup was posted to misc.legal.moderated and a copy was sent
to the cited author.]

Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:37:30 -0000 from <krizstyling19[at]aol.com> :
- quote -

Are you the executor of his estate? If not, then you should realy
direct this inquiry through the executor as a first step. If you are,
then ...

Phone or (preferably) make an appointment and visit Human Resources
at his ex-employer. When you make the appointment, ask what
documentation if any they'll want to see before giving you
information, such as a copy of his death certificate and your birth
certificate showing him as your father.

If you find the 401K has been improperly distributed, you'll probably
need to contact a lawyer and sue, unless you're lucky and the HR
director takes responsibility for the error and for fixing it.

--
If you e-mail me from a fake address, your fingers will drop off.

I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. When you read anything
legal on the net, always verify it on your own, in light of your
particular circumstances. You may also need to consult a lawyer.

Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com

krizstyling19[at]aol.com wrote:

- quote -


I am sorry for your loss.
There are laws in each state that dictate permissions
required. For example, to make anyone but my wife the first
listed beneficiary on my 401(k) I needed her signature. And
for us to roll our pension balances into an IRA, we needed
to sign paperwork giving permission. That said, it would
seem that he likely put the girlfriend on the account as a
beneficiary. On the chance that he didn't, I suggest you
call the company headquarters and ask to speak to someone in
the benefits department. With the chance that he didn't
assign any other beneficiary, you may have an inheritance
comming to you.

I hope to see you post back your findings.
Good luck,
JOE

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >

On 27 Feb 2006, krizstyling19[at]aol.com wrote:

- quote -

That your father chose to maintain what you appear to suggest he and
his lover considered to be a de facto spousal relationship over what
you say was a long time suggests that, unlike you, he did not consider
her or that relationship to be unfortunate.

Your "she had it transferred" speculation is probably anyway
misplaced because - in a manner comparable to what you as
distinguished from what your father would consider to be
"unfortunate"? - it removes your father's choice and, necessarily, his
related action from the equation in apparent disregard of this fact:

Federal law governing the administration of 401k accounts requires
that the principal owner of such an account - here, your father -
designate in writing who that account's beneficiary shall be and, in
turn, prohibits the administrator of such an account - here, your
father's long-term employer or a financial services provider
designated by it and by him that acted as custodian for the account -
from disbursing the proceeds to anyone other than the beneficiary the
principal names in writing.

And while it is also at least conjecturally possible that the woman in
question forged your father's name to the relevant documents, you
certainly do not say in your posting that or how you would have even
the slightest good faith factually credible basis to make let alone
actually to prove any such claim. Even so, however, if you insist on
trying to obtain an answer to your "have no idea where to begin"
question ("begin" after you chose o wait more than two years just to
ask it!?), might one such "idea" be to ask your father's employer or
the person you describe as his "girl friend" who was the beneficiary
of that account?

krizstyling19[at]aol.com wrote:
- quote -

was a long time live-in friend of your father, it is quite
possible that she was the named beneficiary. The employer's plan
administrator can only distribute the assets to the named
beneficiary or to the decedent's estate if there was no
beneficiary named. If the assets went to the estate then
ownership of the assets would eventually go to those who were
named in a will or if there was no will, then to those
individuals dictated by state probate law.

You should start with the employer's human resources department
and find out who administered the plan. At a minimum they should
tell you whether the plan's assets were distributed to the
beneficiary or the estate. If they went to the estate, then you
will need to find out who administered the estate and what became
of the estate assets. This is probably best handled by an
attorney..

krizstyling19[at]aol.com wrote:
- quote -

Please accept my condolences for your father's death. Hope you are
recovering.

On the business side of things, I don't believe anybody can "transfer"
a 401k "into [their] name." When your father started contributing to
his 401k, he had to name beneficiaries (most likely 4) to the account
in the event of his death before he accessed or depleted the funds in
the account. However, the beneficiaries your father named *could* have
been changed by him at any time while he was alive. Only he could
change these names and it is possible he changed one of them to his
live in girlfriend. Also, one allocates the percentages that they
would want the account distributed to, i.e. 25% for each beneficiary,
or even 100% to one beneficiary and nothing for the other three.

What I would do is contact your father's company's human resources
office. Somehow I doubt they can reveal anything to you about his 401k
but they can probably point you in the right direction of what you need
to do. That would be a place to start. Second, contact your state's
office of Abandoned and Unclaimed Property. Having your dad's social
security number, as well as your own, would be a good idea when you
called. Finally, has your father's estate gone to probate yet? If so,
you should contact the attorney representing your father's estate and
possible obtain your own attorney to file a claim against the estate.
Contact your legal aid office or find an attorney specializing in
estate & trust matters.

Good luck!

---Chris J. Disclaimer: no attorney-client relationship exists here
and posting is in the matter of general legal advice only. Persons are
advised to contact their own attorney.

- quote -

<krizstyling19[at]aol.com> wrote in message
news:1205i2q67vr7p76[at]corp.supernews.com...
- quote -

It is possible that your father had her listed as a beneficiary of the 401K.
You should check with the HR department of the company where your father
worked for more information.

In article <1205i2q67vr7p76[at]corp.supernews.com> , krizstyling19[at]aol.com
wrote:

- quote -

Anything is possible. The bigger question is if it was legal.

When a person dies, they normally go into a legal process
called probate. Someone is designated to be the Executor,
which is a paid position. THe Executor identifies and documents
all the assets and all the debts. Debts are paid off. Next,
the final income tax return is completed and sent off to the
IRS. If there is anything left, a plan is drawn up to distribute
the remaining funds to the heirs. The heirs are determined
by a will, if there is one, or by state law, if there is not
one. The judge will make a decision, the funds will be
distributed, and probate will be closed.

Some family members might not be happy with the distribution
plan. In that case, they can contest either the will or the
plan. When that happens, the process can drag on, sometimes
for years. Often the estate of the deceased will be used up
paying legal costs to fight these family fights. In that
case, everyone loses.

Now then, there are some things that transfer without going
through probate. Items that are part of certain kinds of
trusts go to the specified heirs upon death without court
oversight. The heirs will know who they are long before
the person in question passes on. Some types of bank
accounts also transfer on death, though I don't recall which
kind. This may be where your dad's live-in took some assets,
if she was the beneficiary of such an account.

The best advice is to find out who the family attorney is
that is handling your dad's probate. Spend a few minutes
with that attorney to learn about the process and what has
happened so far. If you like the answers, then great. If
you don't, and the amount of money is high enough to fight
for, then hire your own attorney to represent your interests.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

In article <1205i2q67vr7p76[at]corp.supernews.com> ,
krizstyling19[at]aol.com says...
- quote -

Ask if your father named the girlfriend as the beneficiary.
If that is the case, then there is nothing you can do. If
she wasn't named as the bene, consult with a local
attorney. You will need help to take on not only the
girlfriend, but the former employer.

As to the personal items, I'll let one of the lawyers
address that issue. (I am not a lawyer and don't even play
one on TV.)

Gary




--
E-mail to the above address is rarely read. If you want to
contact me directly, please send an e-mail to: gary at
gdgoodman dot com.

My father passed in December of 2003. Unfortunately, he had
a long time live in girlfriend (not married and no common
law in the state of Illinois) who held everything of my
father's from us, including small things such as photo
albums. My father was an employee of the same place for
over 22 years, I have just now gotten out of my deep despair
in his death, I know my father had a 401k, and I've heard
from relatives that she had it transferred into her name.
Is this even possible? How would I even start to go about
the probe into figuring this out?

I know this may seem juvenile, but I'm 23 years old and have
no idea where to begin, any help is appreciated.

Thank you.

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >