"Harlan Lunsford" <hlunsford[at]bellsouth.net> wrote:

http://www.irs.gov/app/vita/content/...04_03_025.html

- quote -

He should not and cannot. Note the "clearly the 4137 is
inappropriate" above.

- quote -

My earlier question, snipped before that last one was
posted, was what IRS wants us to do when the wages ARE
subject to FICA and the employer hasn't given the employee a
W-2. VITA is telling us to use the 4137, and the link says
don't, but doesn't say what to do.

Household employees can't elect FICA coverage if an employer
pays them less than $1400. They got thoroughly hosed by
Congress during Nannygate, and I was the only person at IRS
who seemed to care.

The employer burden problem could have been fixed easily and
quickly with a reg change, but this was during the days
when it was an IRS given that taxpayers fail to comply only
when IRS makes it too hard or they don't understand. The
Deputy Commissioner decided that if it went on the 1040 all
these people who had been dodging it because we couldn't
catch them would start complying. (I'm still owed the beer
on my bet that compliance wouldn't budge, and the last time
I looked, it hadn't.)

Putting it on the 1040 required going to Congress which, in
its everpresent concern for the little guy, stuck it to the
domestics by raising the floor from $100 in a quarter to
$1,000 (indexed) in a year, thus cutting a lot of them out
of coverage.

Of course, the domestics could hop in their Lexuses (Lexii?)
and run down the their lawyers and CPA's and get themselves
set up so they could be independent contractors. I guess
it's just laziness that they don't.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >

Phil Marti wrote:
- quote -

Well now, if such household wages under 1400$ are not
taxable for SS purposes, why should/must employee
voluntarily add such via a form 4137?

Are you saying he/she must? Or voluntarily if he/she
wants to post some SS credits?

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >

- quote -

Per my conversation with the IRS helpline, Form 4852 is
supposed to be used by the taxpayer only upon direction by
the IRS, after the taxpayer has unsuccessfully tried to get
a W-2 or 1099 from an employer, and has contacted the IRS
about same after February 15, 2006. Indeed, a line on that
Form regarding the lack of the W-2 or 1099 says "I have
notified the IRS of this fact."

So, Yes, that form is useful in the right circumstances.

The original circumstance involved a babysitter sitting in a
person's home about 4 days a week, over age 18, earning
$2000 in a summer, where the employer was considering the
babysitter a business, and not withholding taxes, FICA,
Medicare, FUTA, etc. and also not providing a W-2 or 1099.
According to the IRS, since an SS-8 will be separately filed
asking the IRS to determine that the employee was actually a
Household Employee, no substitute W-2 or 1099 would be
required.

What a tangled web we weave.

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >

<cballard[at]tyyni.net> wrote:

http://www.irs.gov/app/vita/content/...04_03_025.html

- quote -

As I noted in an earlier post, at VITA they're still telling
us to use the 4137. The link above doesn't say what to do,
and it sounds like you're guessing, not relaying IRS
instructions. There's a breakdown at IRS somewhere.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >

Phil Marti wrote:
- quote -

How about Form 4852?

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4852.pdf

This form seems like it's a better fit than Form 4137 for a
household employee.

--Chris Ballard

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >

"tobe" wrote

- quote -

However, this same day I called the IRS for advice about
this very subject. It was the fifth person that I talked to
that sounded smart enough to understand both what I was
asking and the rules. She told me how to handle the return,
which included filling out Form 4137 (SS & MCare tax on
unreported tips), crossing out the word 'tips' and adding
'wages' instead!! Indeed, she noted there IS no other form
for this purpose. [A separate filing of form SS-8 is also
involved.]

Ah, if the right hand kneweth what the left hand doeth!

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >

"tobe" <ybotkaSPM[at]cinci.rr.com> wrote:

- quote -

Well, that's about as unhelpful as it could be.

Household wages under $1400 are not taxable for SS/Medicare,
so clearly the 4137 is inappropriate in such a case. What
is IRS saying to do if the wages are FICA taxable?

I just had VITA training last night, and we were still on
the 4137 page.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >

Earlier this year, advice on this forum recommended using
Form 4137 to report household employee wages where a W-2 was
not received. Note that IRS advice is to no longer use this
form for that purpose.

See:
http://www.irs.gov/app/vita/content/...04_03_025.html

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >