Lanny K Williams CPA wrote:
- quote -

SS calculates ex-spouse's benefits based upon what you would
get if you waited until your maximum retirement age (whether
or not you have started to draw). If she has earnings, her
amount will be "supplemented" to bring her up to 50% of your
maximum benefit. She gets to take whichever is more - -
hers or yours - - from day one. If she is retiring before
her maximum retirement age, then the maximum calculated
benefit is reduced according to how early she starts to
collect. If I had waited one more year to my maximum age,
it would have taken 12 years to re-coup the amount I would
not have collected in that one year - a no-brainer! If you
pre-decease her, her benefit will jump to 75% of yours - -

~ Barbara

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Lanny K Williams CPA wrote:
- quote -

See my earlier response regarding a divorced spouse not
having to wait for the other spouse to receive benefits.

When the divorced spouse at age 62 files for benefits, by
law that spouse is filing for benefits both as a divorced
spouse and on their own record. In the example presented,
at age 62 the person is entitled to a reduced benefit on
their own. If it turns out that the benefit is higher based
on the former spouse's record, then the amount received will
be the higher amount. But... it is still considered to be a
reduced benefit at age 62.

Therefore, at age 65 the divorced spouse can not apply for
benefits on their own because they had already applied 3
years earlier for reduced benefits on their own and has been
receiving them.

--
Alan
http://taxtopics.net

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Lanny Williams wrote:
- quote -

My understanding is that you can always choose the benefit
that is most advantageous.

As for breaking even, adding a decent time value of money
factor would extend the break even point into the late
70s/early 80s.

I also have heard that they changed the rule on divorced
spouses where the lower income ex does not have to wait for
the higher income ex to draw. But not positive on this.
Ask SS.

-HW "Skip" Weldon
Columbia, SC

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Dick wrote:
- quote -

I seem to have become the resident "expert" on this, but I must admit I
don't know for sure. If the ex cannot draw on your account until you
start drawing on your own, then this would be the case. Otherwise, I
understand that SSA calculates both benefits and pays the higher.

Lanny K. Williams, CPA
Nawarat, Williams & Co., Ltd.
Income Tax Services for Expatriate Americans

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"Lanny K Williams CPA" <lanny[at]expatriatetax.net> wrote:

- quote -

Hypothetically:
Ex-Spouse is 62, meets qualifications for 50% benefit, and
also has own benefits.

Drawing your own benefit at age 62 vs age 65 has a breakeven
point around age 71. So could ex-spouse take the 50% benefit
to age 65 and then own benefit thereafter?

Dick

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Dick Adams wrote:
- quote -

Yes. I have been divorced 28 years and just started collecting
SS. Get my own plus a "bonus" that brings me up to what I would
get if we were still married. Doesn't affect either what he will
get when he retires or what his new wife gets.

Barbara

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Arthur Kamlet wrote:
- quote -

That might explain why Utah leads the nation in wifely SS
payouts. <g
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- quote -

Five divorced spouses all drawing Social Security based on
your earning would be possible, but would take a lot of
pre-planning. Each spouse would have to have been married to
you for at least 10 years. So, if you were first married at
20 and each marriage lasted exactly 10 years and were
divorced from the last at 70, that fits the bill. But if
your average marriage lasted, say, 12 years, you would be 80
by the time of your last divorce - and I would think you
would have learned your lesson long before that :-)

--
Vic Roberts
Replace xxx with vdr in e-mail address.

Moderator:
If only I had known this, I could have had 6 wives and 30
children. Timing really is everything.

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Lanny K Williams CPA wrote:
- quote -

I believe there is a small quirk in the law relating to divorced
spouses. A divorced spouse can collect benefits starting at age
62 and starting any time that the former spouse is entitled to
benefits. In other words, the former spouse does not have to be
actually collecting benefits. That rule only applies to
currently married spouses who want to collect based on the other
spouse's employment record.

To sum up: A divorced spouse can collect benefits based on a
former spouse's record even if the former spouse is not
collecting. A married spouse can not collect benefits based on
the spouse's record until that spouse starts to collect benefits.

--
Alan
http://taxtopics.net

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Stuart A. Bronstein <spamtrap[at]lexregia.com> wrote:
- quote -

That's worse than today, where each spouse to whom you were
married to for at least 10 years gets an undivided amount, based
on your earnings. The more wives, the more money could be paid
out.

__
Art Kamlet ArtKamlet [at] AOL.com Columbus OH K2PZH

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Stuart A. Bronstein wrote:

- quote -

If so, that would introduce a new "risk" into the social security
system. Under CURRENT law (as I understand it), your earnings
record and/or benefits are NEVER reduced as the result of
divorce.

MTW

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Dick Adams wrote:
- quote -

One requirement I didn't include in my earlier posts: the
divorced spouse cannot be remarried.

Other than this, once you start drawing your benefit, your ex
will be entitled to a benefit of 50% of yours. This is
assuming that she is not entitled to a larger benefit based
on her own earnings record. I suppose it is theoretically
possible that a person could have 4 or 5 divorced spouses
drawing on his/her account if he had remarried frequently.

Actually, she does not get the benefit from you. Her
entitlement is independent of yours (except for the
requirement that you start drawing on your own). SSA will
figure this benefit for her and give her the higher of the
two. Remember, what she draws does NOT affect the amount
of your benefit.

Lanny K. Williams, CPA
Nawarat, Williams & Co., Ltd.
Income Tax Services for Expatriate Americans

"MTW" <mtwingcpa[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

It would probably be divided just as any pension type plan
is divided in divorce - the amount in the plan times the
number of years married divided by the number of years a
participant in the plan.

Stu

Moderator: They don't do that.

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Dick Adams at rdadams[at]smart.net wrote:
- quote -

http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/yourdivspouse.htm

All freely provided advice guarantee correct or double
your money back

Frank S. Duke, Jr. CPA
Cincinnati, OH USA

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Dick Adams wrote:

- quote -

If she has not remarried, the answer is probably "yes."

Note, FWIW, that the devotees of Social Security "private
accounts" have not bothered to explain what would happen to
this benefit under their proposals. According to AARP,
"Protection for divorced women unclear. Proposals don't say
whether a private account holder must share access, setting
the stage for legal struggles."

MTW

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"Dick Adams" <rdadams[at]smart.net> wrote
- quote -

Only if you die first. Could work the other way 'round.

The thing is, both spouses get to draw the same amount
(it's not like they have to split it, or it's 'first-come,
first-served' either)

--
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Athens, Georgia

Moderator:
If I had known this, I could have used it as an enticement
for multiple wives! <g> All I have now is that my children,
natural, adopted, or step get free tuition toward a first
degree in the University of Maryland System. But I have no
serious takers. <g
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Dick Adams wrote:
- quote -

If she has not remarried, yes. It will have NO effect on any
benefit you or your current wife are entitled to.

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so, if the wife who never worked is younger than her husband
she waits til he takes his full retirement and then she applies
for her share at that same time? Of course her share of his
would no doubt be larger once he dies and would she then take
that seems like a weird situation to me

--
jtc
jtamchay[at]yahoo.com

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Dick Adams wrote:
- quote -

She is not entitled to a benefit "from you." She is entitled
to a benefit from the SSA equal to 50% of your benefit.

--
Alan
http://taxtopics.net

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jtc wrote:
- quote -

SNIP

- quote -

If you retire, your spouse is entitled to a benefit equal to
50% of yours. The spouse must be old enough to draw
benefits and otherwise qualify but he/she gets the benefit
for life. If you are divorced, the spouse is entitled to
this benefit if the marriage lasted 10 years. In either
case, the benefits do not stop when the primary beneficiary
dies.

Interestingly enough, the spouse cannot draw this benefit
until the primary beneficiary either dies or starts drawing
benefits. So, if you defer the start of benefits in your
account, your wife cannot draw her share. On the other
hand, Your benefit amount is not affected by hers; unlike
typical retirement plans, there is no reduction for this
spousal benefit.

Of course, if the spouse would draw more on his/her own
account, these rules do not apply.

How do I know this? Well, I have read the rules on the SSA
web site but I am also drawing my benefits and my wife gets
hers.

Lanny K. Williams, CPA
Nawarat, Williams & Co., Ltd.
Income Tax Services for Expatriate Americans

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