- quote -

He now has the numbers. (Sorry, I left that part out of the
earlier recap.)

I do not know if the IRS will consider an offer, but unless
there's some case law that I'm not aware of, I can't see any
reason why the taxpayer couldn't prevail in a refund suit.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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Phil Marti wrote:

- quote -

Thanks for this follow-up, that's an interesting angle you
bring up. I pretty much had the form & attachments all
ready to go, and am sending a very detailed letter
explaining all this, with copies of amended 1040's, which
all show that I should have received a refund. Here goes.

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Phil Marti wrote:
- quote -

(remainder snipped.)

And I disagree, Phil. The liability IS indeed settled, not
just because of OP's inaction in timely filing amended
returns, but also because the courts have "settled" the
issue before. "No number, no exemption." (No tickee; no
shirtee!)

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford

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"eTaxes.com" <eTaxes[at]gmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

I disagree. I see a liability offer as one of two courses
the OP could follow. As a recap, according to OP the
liabilities exist only because dependents were disallowed
because of the absence of SSN's for them. The liability is
"settled" only because of OP's inaction in filing amended
returns while the assessment statute was open.

I would start with a doubt as to liability offer. The
assessed liability is clearly wrong, regardless of whether
there's an easy administrative fix for it. I wouldn't spend
a lot of money on a rep to prepare the offer for me, as it
may not land on the desk of someone in IRS who fully
understands what's going on.

The alternative is to pay the tax (not the penalty and
interest) and claim a refund on Form 1040X. Although the
assessment statute has tolled, a refund claim is allowed
anytime within 2 years of payment. If the IRS denies the
refund claim the recourse is to District Court or the US
Court of Claims (orwhatever they call it nowadays).

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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An Offer in Compromise Doubt as to Liability is NOT
appropriate for this circumstance. It will not be given
serious consideration as the validity of the tax liability
is NOT in doubt. The taxes are indeed valid. The fact is
that you didn't file an amended return timely. Take a look
at what the Internal Revenue Manual says:

5.8.21.2 (02-01-2004)
Considering the Liability Issue

1. Doubt as to liability exists where there is a genuine
dispute as to the existence or amount of the correct tax
liability under the law. Doubt as to liability does not
exist where the liability has been established by a final
court decision or judgment concerning the existence or
amount of the tax liability.

2. Before a doubt as to liability offer can be accepted,
there must be some doubt as to the correctness of the
liability. Validity of the offer is determined by evaluating
the supporting evidence and circumstances. The taxpayer is
required to submit documentation and/or other evidence to
support his/her doubt as to liability claim. The evidence
available for both parties must be weighed in order to
determine the extent of any "doubt" .

I simply do not see an Offer as a proper course of action.

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Mitch wrote:
- quote -

Okay then, here's what I and others here suggest I'm sure.

Sit down with a competent and local tax pro, either an EA
(Enrolled Agent), or a CPA (Certified Public Accountant).
You may even find one that will give you a short time
session for free, just to hear you out and form a quick
opinion as to whether you might have a case based on your
facts and circumstances.

And that's the important thing there, for we would not
expect you to lay you financial cards on the table in this
forum so we could then advise you. Each case is different
so I urge you to seek out local help.

Good luck,

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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Phil Marti wrote:
- quote -

Yeah, I've filed some amended ones, I think they only let me
file back to 3 years. But my problem goes back some 10
years, and they won't let me amend those. So with interest
& penalties on tax forms where they didn't allow my
dependents, it's on that I'm trying to file the OIC.

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Harlan Lunsford wrote:
- quote -

I do have decent income, which is some what a hit against
me. However, we are a family of 6 now (myself included),
living on that one income. The IRS has had a lien against me
for some time now, for close to 30k, give or take a couple
of k. That's my reason for the OIC. I need to settle that
once and for all.

The way they've arrived at that is on the returns that I
filed (before I got the SSNs), they disallowed my kids,
therefore making the penalty & interest higher, because
without the kids on there, I wound up owing, in their eyes,
rather than receiving a refund.

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"Mitch" <tmitch[at]noname.com> wrote:

- quote -

You don't need an offer in compromise, you need to file amended returns.
See Form 1040X and its separate instructions.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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Mitch wrote:

- quote -

This may be an elemental question, but just why are you
seeking an office in compromise(OIC)? Is it just because
of the issue above, or is it more deep seated, like no
further income or prospects of further income and still
owing a horrendous amount to IRS?

Only in the latter case might you have half a chance at
getting an offer even considered. Please tell us more.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << It may not be relied upon for the purpose of avoiding > << penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer or the > << tax preparer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2005) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >

I've been reading past postings on this topic, trying to get
a feel for preparing the form. It's great being able to
comb thru the group.

I want to use the checkbox regarding the doubt as to owing
the tax. My problem is that I didn't get SSNs for my kids
until this past year, for idiotic reasons. Anyway, had the
IRS allowed my kids as dependents when I filed, I would not
owe tax/fees/etc., and in fact, would have received refunds
during those years. Of course, you need an SSN for each one
when filing, and I do have them now. Yes, I'm an idiot, or
was more so in the past.

I'm hoping to say that with this last year as an example
(would have ~4k in refund), that if I had the SSN on the
forms for the previous years, I would not be in the
predicament that I'm in now. Or is the checkbox regarding
the doubt of owing the tax only for glitches when the form
is processed on their end?

Mitch

<< ================================================== ===== > << The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only > << and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. > << It may not be relied upon for the purpose of avoiding > << penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer or the > << tax preparer. > << > << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. > << Copyright (2005) - All rights reserved. > << ================================================== ===== >