- quote -

There was an article in yesterday's NY Times about Mexican
citizens who have US SSNs "renting" out their numbers to
illegals in the US. Don't know how big this trend is, but I
would think it would be very difficult for an employer to
determine that the SSN did not really belong to the employee
and also difficult for the government to discover.

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Vic Dura wrote:
- quote -

There are typically two methods employed when an illegal
wants to get hired "on the books."

1. The illegal alien uses a valid SSN and matching name.
There are thousands of permanent residents who are no longer
in the US who rent their names and SSNs to illegals. Many
are in the same family. In other cases a third party
provides the valid name and number unbeknownst to the owner
who probably no longer resides in the US. Taxes are withheld
and paid over to the tax authorities. Employer gets the
business deduction. Employee files tax returns with the
refund usually going to the owner when it is a rental type
situation. The owner of the valid SSN gets the ultimate
benefit for retirement purposes.

2. The illegal alien obtains false identity including a
phony SSN. When the W-2 data hits the government computers
it goes into a suspense file. Ultimately this triggers a
letter to the employer to get it straightened out. If the
employer is not part of the plan, the employer will either
fire the employee or obtain the correct number or spelling
of the name from the employee. The employee will either
disappear or provide a different spelling or slightly
different number to start the cycle all over again. If the
employer is part of the plan, the employer will either
disregard the notice until such time that a second or third
notice or fourth notice, etc. shows up. Ultimately, if the
employer has to fire the employee, another person or the
same person will be hired using another name and number and
the cycle starts all over again. The employer gets the tax
deduction because the employer is collecting and paying over
the withheld taxes to the US and state tax authorities.

In all of the above situations, employers are not required
to authenticate the identity of the employee. I.e., if the
employee provides a social security card and picture ID
(typically a driver's license) that appears valid, the
employer is not responsible for determining if they are
fake.

--
Alan
http://taxtopics.net

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- quote -

The law says the employer just has to file a legal-appearing
form with a SSN. These forms cost a few bucks in any most
any town. The employer doesn't have to verify the
information on the form, but can with a free phone call to
the SSA. A few months hence the SSA will send the employer
an inquiry if the name, number, address and DOB dont match.
By then the employee may have moved on.

A more expensive class of paperwork is a real SSN with real
names and DOB (similar ethnicity and age) which the employee
will assume. Some of these are borrowed unknowingly from
the owner, while others are "rented" with payment to the
owner. These numbers are much harder to detect. This can be
dangerous should the renter be arrested for crimes. 60
Minutes II found a lot of renting going on.

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Vic Dura wrote:
- quote -

The employer doesn't. He's playing the audit lottery.

- quote -

These contractors get away with it only because the States
are so underfunded, they don't have the ability tp pay
enforcement personnel. Failure to enforce does not make
something legal.

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Vic Dura <vpdura[at]CLUTTERhiwaay.net> wrote:

- quote -

There are two ways people generally deal with this. One is
that the worker gets a phony number, so it works as if he's
legitimate.

The other way is that the worker is paid under the table,
without withholdings. In that case it's not claimed as a
deductible expense on the employer's income tax.

That is highly illegal, of course, and could subject the
employer to high penalties if discovered. So you are
advised not to do it.

- quote -

Perhaps they're not illegal after all. There are plenty of
people that I see in California who have stong accents
(generally Mexican but also some Chinese) who are legal
residents.

- quote -

A green card is difficult, but some working visas may be
easier. I don't practice immigration law, but if you are
considering hiring people who are currently illegal, check
with a lawyer to see if there's a way to make them legal.

Stu

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"D. Stussy" <kd6lvw[at]bde-arc.ampr.org> wrote:
- quote -

How do the employers of all the illegal Mexicans handle
this. It used to be that the illegals where mostly employed
as farm or restaurant workers and probably paid cash under
the table. But if one makes such cash-payments without
FIT/SIT/SS withholding, how can the employer substantiate
the salary expenses in his tax return without matching
amounts for FIT/SIT/SS?

Now I'm seeing illegals employed by contractors on state
funded highway projects. How do the contractors get away
with it? I just don't understand how they can claim the
wage expenses on their tax returns if the totals don't match
the FIT/SIT/SS payments.

--
To reply to me directly, remove the CLUTTER from my email address.

Moderator:
As much as I disapprove of violating the law, a restaurant
owner explained to me that illegals show up early, take
shorter breaks, shorter lunchs, do not get ready to leave
until after quiting time, and express gratitude when they
are paid. They also do not take days off for no reason.
I told him to help them get green cards so he wouldn't be
violating the law.

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"Dannie" <sloopoke.noname[at]nospam.optonline.net.lga.highwinds-media.com
- quote -

Skills or not, temporary or permanent, you will need to get
the Social Security number of any person who is your
employee. Young people have them. Old people have them.
People who were born here and never worked here can get them
easily from their local Social Security Office. Immigrants
apply for them during the entry process when they come here.
The disabled have them, or can get them easily.

People not legally entitled to work in this country do not
have them. Is this what we are speaking of? There is not
really a proper procedure for reporting their wages, since
you can't legally pay them wages.

Bryan
------------------------ Bryan Kellar, EA
Oregon Tax Help, Inc. -- Portland, Oregon
www.oregontaxhelp.com
www.canadatax.org

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Dannie wrote:

- quote -

Employers are not allowed to hire employees who do not have
a social security number ;-).

--
Alan
http://taxtopics.net

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Dannie wrote:

- quote -

At first blush (and heaven knows, I NEVER blush!), one would
say "No SSN; no employment." Like the Mexican worker my
client paid while he put him off about bringing his SSN to
work. Finally I persuaded client to demand the number or get
rid of the guy. Well, Presto! the Mexican produced a
number.

HOWEVER; perhaps you can structure the arrangement as
contracted work. Make sure that they do the work off
premises, using their own tools, setting their own hours,
and you pay them a flat fee for the work done. Sure,
you're supposed to get their social security number for
reporting here too, but I'm just not sure that is in the
law; perhaps it is. After all, if I employed a Scottish
couple just visiting this country to produce something
uniquely pertinant to the Highlands and its culture, they
might be the only available people to do the job, and the
lack of their having a United States social security number
would not deter me.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA
(who ordered a Rusty Nail Thursday night, but got nothing but
Drambuie on the rocks, Dick.)

Moderator:
Harlon, mi amigo, you need to stop frequenting redneck
saloons.

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Dannie wrote:

- quote -

Why don't they have SSNs? Among other things, when you hire
someong, you are supposed to fill out some Immigration
form(s) and keep them in file that prove you have checked
that they can legally work in the US. (I don't practice in
the US any more, so I don't have to worry about these
things. As a result, I don't have the form numbers, etc.
handy.)

If they don't have SSNs, then they are probably illegal
aliens and you would be violating the law by hiring them.

You cannot report earnings without the SSN.

Lanny K. Williams, CPA
Nawarat, Williams & Co., Ltd.
Income Tax Services for Expatriate Americans

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"Dannie" <sloopoke.noname[at]nospam.optonline.net.com> wrote

- quote -

They need to secure an Income Tax Identification Number
(ITIN).

Wayne Brasch

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"Dannie" <sloopoke[at]nospam.optonline.net.lga.highwinds-media.com> wrote:

- quote -

They get SSN's and you file Form 941 (943 if this is
agricultural). The last time I looked it's illegal to hire
people, skilled or un, without verifying that they can
legally work in the US.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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"Dannie" <sloopoke.noname[at]nospam.optonline.net.lga.highwinds-media.com
- quote -

Generally, I do not aide and abeit people in breaking the
law. However, this time I will. Assist them in applying
for a SSN. Without one they can not legally work in the US.

--
Regards,

Mark Rigotti

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Dannie wrote:

- quote -

If they don't have an SSN and don't qualify to get one, they
also don't qualify to legally work. You can't report their
earnings without an SSN (ITINs aren't available for W-2s).

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I'm interested in hiring for a couple months a few people
(no skills) who do not have a SS#. Does anyone know the
proper procedure to report their earnings for FIT/SIT/SS
earnings.

Thanks

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