Arthur L. Rubin wrote:
- quote -

Must not be, cause I seem to remember IRS in a fact sheet
for preparers regarding the EIC suggesting that preparers do
so.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford
Sun, 16 Jan 2005

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Seth Breidbart wrote:
- quote -

Well, in fairness to Gene, he was referring just to a
merchant, while I also remarked about my neighbors (husband
and wife, btw) who work at local IRS office over in
Columbus.

Once, when an examiner from that office needed another copy
of an 1120 for a client and asked me to mail it to them, or
even fax it, I said I wasn't spending any postage on this
matter, however I would (and did) put a copy addressed to
that examiner in my neighbor's mail box that night for him
to take over to the office next door. By prearrangement with
him of course, and no, I did NOT put a stamp on it, just
because I put it in an official U S post office mailbox
which is owned by an individual.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
Sat, 15 Jan 2005

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DORFMONT[at]aol.com wrote:

- quote -

Isn't it a violation of Federal law to photocopy the
Social Security Card? I believe it was illegal for
employers to do so in the I-9 instructions.

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Gene E. Utterback, EA <eagent[at]alliancetax.com> wrote:
- quote -

You don't think knowing someone for umpteen years because he
lives two doors away from you is better ID than a piece of
plastic with a bad photo on it?

Seth

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Vic Dura wrote:
- quote -

And I promise not to tell them that you're located about 75
miles from ARAB!

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
Fri, 14 Jan 2005

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MODERATOR: How is this tax-related?
---
"And since I'm male, I do not tarry in a store; just get
what I came from and out in 10 minutes. Not like my wife."

I can do that with a whole shopping center and I'm not male.
I go to Torrance, park way out where I know I can find a
place, go in by the store, find my thing, buy it and leave.
Del Amo, one of the largest shopping centers in the country,
too.

Linda Dorfmont E.A., CFP, CSA

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ID Harlan Lunsford <hlunsford[at]bellsouth.net> wrote:

- quote -

That's the truth, and I would like to see it stay that way.

Vic Dura
Rogersville, AL
On the North Bank
(of the Tennessee River)

--
To reply to me directly, remove the XXX characters from my
email address.

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Gene E. Utterback, EA wrote:
- quote -

When I first moved to Richmond in the early eighties I went
to a car dealer. The salesman slopped the dealer tags on the
car I was looking at and said take it for a test drive, he
had no idea who I was. I cam back an bought the car with an
out of town check, no ID ever. More recently crimes against
car dealers have changed all that Today the criminals have
more rights protected and we all have lost more liberty.

--
Frederick E. Jorden http://Tax-Accounting-Payroll.com
7825 Midlothian Tpk - 207 Richmond, VA 23235-5247
EMAIL knowtax[at]bigfoot.com
(804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211

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Gene E. Utterback, EA wrote:
- quote -

WEll don't be surprised, Gene. Down here things are
greatly relaxed and much more easy going than up nawth.
Technically I know that Murryland is supposed to BE
Southern, but having lived in Bal'mer, I know it's not.
You don't get Southern until you get South of
Fredericksburg, VA really.

All a merchant has to do and still be protected is to
compare the signature on back of my card with that I have
just signed. If he does that, no problem. So it's not a
case , like the clerks are trained to say "it's to protect
YOU". Like heck it is, I'm using my card to make my
purchase. My liability is limited by law to 50$, and even
that by custom is not pursued by most credit card companies.
In your example above, asking for photo id by that clerk
would only have prevented that transaction, and not the
others which resulted in his having to spend big legal
bucks.

I take many precautions, like carrying only one credit card
at a time, and keeping money in a second wallet as what we
call a "throw down" billfold, just in case i get stuck up by
some malefactor. Perpetrator, whatever. And I'm
constantly aware of my surroundings while walking to my car
or out in public.

- quote -

And when you accept a new tax client referred by another, do
you also ask for such id? I would never.

- quote -

HAH! Down here I never lock my car, not in my driveway, not
at the office, nor in parking lots (in which later case it's
always in plain sight of the store.) And since I'm male, I
do not tarry in a store; just get what I came from and out
in 10 minutes. Not like my wife. In fact my 94 Saturn
station wagon isn't even insured any more.

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Vic Dura wrote:

- quote -

The IRS SPEC folks in Columbus quantified this for us. We
were told almost every site visit by an IRS SPEC person
would be arranged in advance and the IRS person would have a
picture ID to show us.

In perhaps 1-2 cases in all of Ohio the IRS person would not
reveal him or herself until after the visit. So the numbers seem
very low.

What troubles me about the inspection is their checklist.
It asks about whether the nondiscrimination sign was posted
(we never received one), whether the couselor wore a name
tax, whether the client had privacy -- picture a 30 x 30
room with 25 people lined up for help by 6 counselors and
tell me there's any way to provide privacy -- and similar
questions.

Nowhere does does it ask if the client was helped, Nowhere
does it ask if the counselor helped the client. Nowhere
does it ask how well the counelor seemed to be doing the
job.

It measures red tape items and not tax prep items.

-=-=-=-

As far as asking clients for pcture ID, I've been doing this
for a few years and the adults all seem to have a driver's
license, and the kids I never ask for ID. Can there be EIC
fraud going on? Sure. Am I going to be able to stem that
fraud by asking the little kids to have a driver's license
or poto ID? Obviously not.

Yes, the IRS has a problem with EIC fraud, but I don't see
how this photo ID rule can stop it. The real issue is:
Is Jim Smith's alleged child, Jane Doe, really Smith's
child?

No amount of driver's license stuff will anwer that
question, and that's where the fraud potential lies.

For AARP TaxAide, Is Minnie Mouse really the wife of Felix
Cat?

If they say they are, no amount of photo ID will help here.

And if they have last year's tax return, we can use that as
ID.

__
Art Kamlet ArtKamlet [at] AOL.com Columbus OH K2PZH

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I just taught a VITA volunteer section Saturday. We did
discuss identification of taxpayers and their dependents.
Given that this is California, the Identity Theft and
Illegal Alien capital of the country, asking for SS cards
for new clients is advisable. It is also recommended for
VITA sites at least in the Los Angeles District.

My friend Sonia has the practice of copying SS cards for all
new cleints and new dependents to keep in her client files.
That way if an exemption or EIC is questioned she has the
card.

At one of my free workshops at my local library I found a
family of immigrants whose cards had different last names (a
clerical error on the part of SSA). I wrote a letter to SSA
for the father whose name was misspelled pointing out that
his wife and children had their family names spelled
correctly but the father's was not and SSA should correct
the error. I expect to see them baack again this year,
hopefully with a new SS card.

One of the greatest areas for fraud is in refundable
credits. I think asking for proof of identity when you don't
know the person is a good idea.

Linda Dorfmont E.A., CFP, CSA (that's Certified Senior Advisor)

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"Harlan Lunsford" <hlunsford[at]bellsouth.net> wrote:
- quote -

Harlan - I am surprised at you! In this age of digital
deception and identity theft I applaud ANY merchant who asks
for ID. IN fact, while all of my Credit Cards are properly
signed, the also include a notation to PLEASE ASK FOR ID and
I make it a point to ask for the manager whenever a clerk or
cashier doesn't ask for my ID. Several years ago a close
friend of mine was the victim of identity theft, it cost him
thousands of dollars in legal fees to clear up the issue and
get his credit back to where it should it should have been.
Had the city's cashiers simply asked for ID when his card
was presented at the various stores, it would have been
stopped before it started.

As a side note, we also do financial services and out
Broker/Dealer and the SEC require us to look at and record
positive photo identification before we can open an account
for anyone, regardless of whether we know them personally or
not.

I agree it is a bit of a hassle, but I liken it to "not
locking MY car in MY driveway" and then wondering why it got
stolen.

Gene E. Utterback, EA

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It is quite obvious to me that they do not want you to
prepare returns for taxpaying terrorists. It is probably
spelled out somewhere in the Patriot Act. <g
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ic Dura wrote:

- quote -

Many of us in AARP's Taxaide program have asked the same
question regarding the new requirement. Here is a quote
from the last AARP Cybertax e-mail:

2. Properly Identifying Taxpayers: AARP Tax-Aide agrees
with the IRS requirement to positively identify taxpayers
and their dependents. Counselors should know or see
"evidence of identity" of the taxpayer. For example,
"evidence of identity" could include a social security
statement and several 1099's that all had the same name and
address. A copy of last year's tax return is also an
important indicator of identity. Photo IDs may be requested
if the taxpayer is not known at the volunteer site and the
counselor does not determine that enough corroborating
source documentation is available to clearly establish
identity.

It is reasonable to have a more stringent identity threshold
when refundable credits are involved in the return
preparation. Since fraud could be a motivating factor in
these returns, photo ID requirements should be the norm for
the taxpayer as well as stringent social security card
requirements for dependents and qualifying children.

Counselors should be prepared to make judgments on the
interpretation of the above initiatives which lack the
specificity to cover every possible consideration. The
guiding principle should be reasonableness.

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Vic Dura wrote:

(snipped for brevity.)

- quote -

With you 105%, Vic! Right on! And tell them to shove it.

No, we have no such requirement. I remember a piece from
IRS recommending we do something like that for EIC
recipients several years ago. In fact, I think that
suggestion is even in publication 1345 which governs
EFiling.

Anyway, any merchant who wants to see a photo ID in order
that I may use my OWN credit card, loses my busines, with
the merchandise left on the counter while I walk out. For
example Office Max.

Don't know what I'll do though, if for some reason some day
I'm at local IRS office on official matter for a client, and
am asked for photo ID by my NEIGHBOR who lives two doors
down the street.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
Sun, 9 Jan 2005

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Vic Dura wrote:

- quote -

No such requirements that I've ever heard of. Naturally, one
must apply a certain amount of due diligence to the
situation, but you had already considered that.

I just gave you a standing ovation!!!

MTW

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I am an IRS TCE (Tax Counseling for the Elderly) volunteer.
I have been providing free tax help at the local library for
the past three year. Yesterday I went to the local 1-day
training class that the IRS provides for volunteers.

I was stunned by two new aspects of the program for 2004: 1)
the IRS employee that visits the sites to see that they are
run properly (required "rights" posters on display,
volunteer's wearing name tags, help provided in an area with
reasonable privacy, etc.) would this year perform the checks
under-cover. Unlike last year where they identified
themselves; this year they would pose as taxpayers. 2) The
second requirement was for photo-ID. We would be required to
ask for two forms of ID, one of which must be a "Passport,
National Identity Card (sounds like something that would be
ask for in the movie Shindler's List), Driver's License,
State ID card, Military ID, etc. If they didn't have the
proper ID, we were supposed to ask them to go home and get
it or refuse to do the return.

In other words, if a TP shows up with a copy of last year's
return, W-2s and 1099s all with the same name/ssn, that's
not enough.

So I was wondering, does the IRS impose these same
identity-check requirements on paid preparers?? The reason I
ask is that 1) I find requirement (1) to be insulting, and
2) in the small town I live in (pop.900) the photo-ID
request would be an egregious breach of etiquette. The banks
don't even ask for photo-ID when cashing a check.

For those who may wonder how I reacted, I told them that as
long as the name/ssn and financial data were consistent and
apparently correct with no hint of fraud or serious error,
that I would not be asking for photo-IDs. They replied that
I then could not be able to work in the program and I of
course agreed completely. I resigned on the spot.

I will now be providing the tax help not as part of the TCE
program, but as part of an NHN (Neighbor-Helping-Neighbor)
program.

Anyway, just curious if you paid-pros making the big buck$
:-) have the same requirements imposed on you.

--
To reply to me directly, remove the XXX characters from my
email address.

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