I have no proof of mailing. I do know I filed from Tampa
that year and remember clearly being in long vehicle line
near the airport to the only open post office to meet the
midnight deadline. I would never mail a check alone, not
something I would do.

BUT if the burden of proof rests with me then it seems I
have no leg to stand on..

Thanks anyway

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

<st4[at]isp.com> wrote:

- quote -

Are you certain you mailed the extension timely? IRS knows
exactly the date your check arrived in the mail, and that
was April 30. To be timely mailed, it would have had to
have been delayed in the mail for at least 2 weeks. I think
they don't post an extension to the account if rec'd late,
but they will post the money using the code for $$ rec'd
with extension. However, posting it to 2002 as likely
estimated tax suggests there was no 4868 in the envelope and
nothing in "MEMO" on the check. You can call IRS and ask the
person to look at the accounts and maybe proffer any other
theories. But as to your general question, you have the
burden to prove timely mailing and identifying any error IRS
has made.

Fred F.

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I have received a response and wondered whether you could
help me further.

On Dec 6th 2004 I paid the full penalty and interest amount,
with a letter questioning the $2,139 payment I made and that
I was not sure if the amount it was returned.

The IRS replied as follows:

They did receive my initial check for $2,139 on 30 April
2002 but have no record of a request for an extention. They
posted the amount to my 2002 taxes. Once I filed my 2002
return I had a credit of $2,139 which they refunded. They
confirm receiving my check for $2,139 and 2001 return on 7
October 2004.

This agrees with my memory of the payment and refund I
received. I don't understand the lack of extension paperwork
- why would I send a check with nothing else.

I am hoping that they will agree that the $2,139 was clearly
a payment made for my 2001 taxes that it is concevable that
the extension paper was lost. Therefore if the $2,139 was
correctly applied to the 2001 tax year then penalties and
interest would be as follows: (interest only because I
cashed the returned $2,139 amount)

So I have penalty to pay between May 26,2003 and October, 7
2004 = 16 months [at] 0.5% (instead of 30 months) PLUS penalty
4.5% for 5 months $481.27 (seems I am stuck with this one)

AND Interest from 5/26/2003 (not april 2002) through
October 7, 2004.

Do I have any hope, is my argument valid, any alternatives.

Many Thanks

Steve

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

With out solid records immediately available, and
considering the cost to research the issues, I would
recommend sending full payment & the letter, also request
transcripts of all you tax account periods 2003 back to
1996.

The account transcripts show the tax, penalty & interest
assessments, and any payments posted, as well as refunds and
refunds of {OVERPAYMENTS}

With that information in hand you will be able to target
which months you might have deposited the in-appropriate
refund, if you never deposited it or believe you did not
cash it, then file a TAXPAYERS STATEMENT REGARDING REFUND,
form 3911.

This claim will be investigated, if it is determined that
you never cashed the refund check the refund entry will be
negated, and then the source credit (your original payment
could be transferred to the correct period, then the
penalties & interest would be automatically negated, and
your most recent payment refunded to you, with a bit more
credit interest. ;-)

If it is determined that you did cash it, the researcher
will send you a copy of the front & back of the US TREASURY
check that you endorsed and the bank through which it was
paid could be traced on the reverse.

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"TaxmanHog" <taxmanhog[at]comcast.net> wrote:

Many thanks for your responcse:

- quote -

This could be - at the time this was my first US filing
since 1998 as I was out of the country.

Should I call and ask them to look at the adjoining periods?
Or just send the full amount = penalty and interest and
appeal the penalty. I do not have the bank statement showing
them cashing my check but I can probably order a statement
to show it, assuming it was cashed May 2002.

- quote -

Well I don't know for sure - I know I got a check for an
amount in the $2,XXX sometime after - I do not have bank
statements to find out. I have to buy them for $5 / month
and I do not know which month. I did think that check was
from 1998 because of an over payment, wishful thinking I
suppose but in that year i was only part year US resident
then overseas for several years with no US income. It never
crossed my mind, until now that they would send my check
back.

Thanks

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

Sounds like your payment with extension might have posted to
a period other than intended possibly 2000 or prior, which
in the spring of 2002, would have all ready have settled to
paid in full or refund generated. The customer service rep
should have looked at adjoining tax periods for the
miss-posted payment & inappropriate refund.

When the miss-post occurred, IRS should have FROZEN the over
payment, this does not always happen, on occasion a Refund
for the amount of the payment plus token amount of credit
interest is generated.

Did you cash that REFUND check?

If No, return it to the IRS with a letter of explanation,
and ask that it be posted to the {SOURCE MODULE}, and then
the original payment transferred to the correct liability
period {2001}, when these actions are complete a majority if
not ALL of the penalty & interest will automatically abate.

If YES, you have a problem; Pay the bill in full and include
a letter of explanation, and seek an abatement of the late
file & late payment penalties. If the tax examiner
determines the facts to be as I assume they are, and there
is no repeating pattern, chances are good the penalty will
be abated, if it is not APPEAL!

The Late filing of the tax return penalty can be as much as
5%, put is generally reduced to 4.5% when the failure to Pay
Penalty is accruing at the same time, this rule is for the
first five months the return is late, on the sixth &
subsequent months of delinquency (lateness) the 0.5% failure
to pay penalty accrues each month, until you get a final
notice & demand at which time the accrual rate jumps to 1% a
month, the absolute maximum is 25%.

Interest will be due regardless, but if your successful in
getting the penalty(s) abated, a portion of compounded
interest on the late filing penalty will also be abated.

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

I just submitted a 2001 tax return late for no reason other
than an initial paperwork problem which meant I did not have
it ready to end on April 16th and then just procrastination;
normally I submit on time, everytime. Anyway I have no
excuse so I will have to pay the penalties and Interest
however want to be sure I am not paying the too much.

I did send a check for the owed amount $2,139 on April 16,
2002 with an extension request; I don't have copy of the
extension request but they did cash the check, and they were
in the same envelope.

I do not have any records but I am pretty sure they sent me
a refund for the amount of the check some months later - is
it normal if they do not receive a return?

I did call them about the $2,139 I had sent them in 2002
before I recently submitted the return, they said they had
no record. Even if they returned the amount surely this
would be on record.

Statement for bill:

Penalties:
09/15/2002 5 months at 4.5% $481.27
10/15/2004 30 months at 0.5% $320.85

Interest:
several different rates from 4/15/2002 through current: $349.94.

Why is it 4.5% for the first 5 months? If I can show that
the check was cashed and later returned? The interest is
calculated from 4/14 is not right if they cashed by check
filed with the extension.

Any advice here.

Thanks

Steve

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