"Bryan Kellar" <bryan[at]oregontaxhelp.com> wrote:
- quote -

Thanks! But what about the greencard test? Am I still
considered to be a resident in 2003, so which date counts
for abandonment: the date of filing the I-407 INS form
(24/6/2004), or the date of abandonment (1/1/2003) I stated
on the INS form?

Regards,
Armin

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"armin liensberger" <zuperman2002[at]gmx.net> wrote:

- quote -

From the information you give, it appears that the
Substantial Presence Test will not apply to you for 2003.
You would still owe tax on any US source income, if you have
any. But that would be taxed as a non-resident.

Bryan

--
-------- Bryan Kellar, EA
Oregon Tax Help, Inc. Portland, Oregon
www.oregontaxhelp.com
www.canadatax.org

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Thank you all!

Some insight...

I got my greencard in September 1997, my wife in October
1998. My last day in the US was 09/29/01, my wife's was
01/20/02 - we did not visit the US since.

After we left the US, we did not have any income from the US
(except interest earnings of $15), no property etc.

The "convenient" date of abandonment was to have clear
separations (year cut), so it was the 1/1/03, slightly also
because I filed are resident return for 2002.

Is it now possible to make a clear advise?

Thanks,
Armin

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"Bryan Kellar" <bryan[at]oregontaxhelp.com> wrote:
- quote -

Thank you for your answer!

I can abandon my status retroactively according to the form.
I agree, may not be the same abandonment as for tax purposes
(the instructions state that you have abandoned your status
when a final official document is issued by the Consulate -
but it doesn't tell for which date, as there are two date:
date of initiating the abandonment and date you say you have
abandoned your status).

Who is best to contact in this case?

The physical presence test should not be a problem. My last
day in the US was 09/29/01, that of my wife was 01/20/02, so
far away from 183 days for 2001, 2002 and 2003.

Just to make sure... can we file as a non-resident for 2003
even we pass the Greencard test - and therefore considered
residents (the presense test is not applicable for us I
think)

Thanks again,
Armin

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- quote -

The act of actual abandonment and the declaration attesting
to a previous act of abandonment are two different things.

What was the act occurring on 1/1/2003 that constituted the
abandonment or did you just pick a convenient date?

If you have been a so-called "long-term" permanent resident
of the US for 10 years prior to abandonment, the US can,
under certain circumstances, continue to tax you as if you
still had a green card.

Assuming that your abandonment relates only to your
admission to reside permanently in the US, you have
succeeded - maybe - in eliminating only one of several tax
definitions of "residency" that could subject you to US
taxes as a resident.

Depending upon the duration of your physical presence in the
US during 2003 and the years immediately prior thereto, you
may still be considered a resident for some or all of 2003.

More to the point, however, is whether you had any income
from US sources in 2003, whether you might be entitled to a
refund of taxes withheld in 2003 and whether you have any
assets the IRS could seize to pay any tax they think you
might owe.

(Departing aliens are theoretically supposed to file Form
1040-C (The "bon voyage" return) but I have never heard of
anyone actually doing so.)

So . . . .

Many facts are needed before answers or any practical advice
can be given.

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Bryan Kellar wrote:
- quote -

I am not an expert in this matter, but this is what I have
gleaned over time:

If a legal permanent resident (LPR) desires to abandon their
LPR status, they can complete Immigration Form I-407
(Abandonment of LPR Status). This form asks for the date of
abandonment. This is generally some date in the past. It is
the date that the LPR actually made the decision to
surrender LPR status. In many cases this happens after the
LPR has departed the US and decided not to return. The
I-407 formalizes the process. For tax purposes, the IRS
assumes an LPR remains an LPR until such time that they
voluntarily surrender their status, their status as an LPR
is changed by the US government or they can provide
satisfactory evidence to the IRS that they abandoned their
LPR status (no I-407 filed).


[snip]

--

Alan
http://taxtopics.net

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"armin liensberger" <zuperman2002[at]gmx.net> wrote:

- quote -

First, are you sure that you can abandon your status
retroactively? In any case, your immigration status may or
may not be the same as your status for tax purposes. See
below.

- quote -

You are considered a resident alien if you pass either the
"Green Card Test" or the "Substantial Presence Test." If
you really can revoke your status retroactively (and I would
check on that if I were you) you need not worry about the
Green Card Test. However, the Substantial Presence Test
says:

You are considered a U.S. resident if you meet the
substantial presence test for 2003. You meet this test if
you were physically present in the United States for at
least:
1. 31 days during 2003 and
2. 183 days during the period 2003, 2002, and 2001, counting
all the days of physical presence in 2003, but only 1/3 the
number of days of presence in 2002 and only 1/6 the number
of days in 2001.

In English, if you were here in 2001 or 2002, you are still
a "resident" if you were here as few as 31 days in 2003. If
you have been not here at all in 2004, which I am inferring
from your post, chances are you are not a resident at all
for 2004. You might want to discus your specific situation
with a tax pro.

- quote -

This would just be kept by you for your records, to be
produced if you are questioned.

- quote -

See above. There is more explaination to the Substantial
Presence Test in the instructions to Form 1040NR.

Bryan

--
-------- Bryan Kellar, EA
Oregon Tax Help, Inc. Portland, Oregon
www.oregontaxhelp.com
www.canadatax.org

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We have abandonned our permanent residence status on 6/24/04
at a US embassy. On the form for the abandonnement, we
stated that the permanent residency ended on 01/01/2003.

We have not filed a return for 2003 (I filed for an
extension though, and filed as a resident in 2002) - do we
have to file the tax return for 2003 now as a non-resident,
or are we considered residents until 6/24/04 althoug we
claimed that the permanent residency ended in January 2003?

Should we include the copy to the tax return from the US
embassy that we have abandonned that permanent residency
status?

Can we file as a non-resident for 2003 in any way?

Thanks for your help!

Armin

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