- quote -

"Often returns which are filed late are ....": How did you
arrive at that conclusion?

This year, after the normal season, I prepared a return for
a friend where the taxpayer was a deceased relative of his.
The IRS had asked for the back year return (2001), and when
I got done with it, the gross income was under the filing
threshold. The IRS should never have bothered, but did so
because they are under the mistaken impression that gross
proceeds, not net gain (or loss) on capital sales
constitutes gross income. They need to go back and re-read
the IRC (Section 61(a)(3) says "gains", not proceeds). If
my friend hadn't filed for his relative, the IRS would have
to pull the broker's statement in order to meet their burden
of proof before the Tax Court (eventually), but would also
discover the basis by doing so, and thus "shoot themselves
in the foot." The decedent had nothing withheld, so there
was no need to have filed earlier.

Therefore, I can equally say: Often returns are late filed
because they are not required to be filed at all.

- quote -

I find that often, the TRULY injured have other things on
their minds than their tax obligations.....

- quote -

That I will agree with.

- quote -

If you're looking for a depression, if the paper were signed
directly against a hard surface, the back will still be flat
and smooth. I don't see how that would be indicative of
anything.

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- quote -

With today's technology, you would think it's moot.

The intention is to minimize potential for FRAUD, often
returns which are filed late are those which have
substantial balance of tax due & unpaid, who signs in the
case of joint income tax returns can be a concern to the
Spouse who did not like the fact that He/She might be liable
for a tax debt which was caused by improperly managed
finances of the other spouse (typically small business,
scorps Sole prop's & partners).

Of course the "INJURED" term used loosely, should file
their own return immediately as married filing separate.
This puts a MARK in the master file which indicates their
individual compliance, and by the time the RESPONSIBLE
spouse {also used loosely}, decides it's time to file the
now delinquent return (DRAFT version computed with joint
income, and tries to FORGE INJURED spouses signature (with
today's technology becoming even easier to do) entrapping
this person into the others person tax debt.

In the case of business taxes, in particular PAYROLL taxes,
who signs might (not always) indicate a party responsible
for non payment of payroll taxes.

I occasionally feel the back of the page for the embossment
which occurs when a REAL signature in any color ink is
applied to the page.

Having the signature on a KNOWN photo copy (pink/red) form
941 is what I see often in a contrasting color simply &
quickly indicates that it's a LIVE signature.

Also the color restriction are more related to machine
imaging issues, several years ago when I was running the
document scanners, the machine that was used to scan
1096/1099 use a RED hue light which caused the "BLIND INK" =
"RED INK" to disappear this allowed the OPTICS of the
scanner to only see the information {name, TIN, and other
provided info}

The machine with a greenish/blue colored light, was used to
scan 1040EZ & 8109 coupons

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- quote -

They (the IRS clerks) use red and green and purple. They
left blue for us.

However, CRAYON isn't out of the question either! I am not
necessarily recommending it.... ;-)

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Helen P. OPlanick EA wrote:
- quote -

I wonder what the IRS has to say about color photocopiers.... :-)

Can't use blue ink? Definently can't use red, green, or
black? I guess that leaves CRAYONS. :-)

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- quote -

Oh, so red is out of the question?

Stu

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"Bob Sandler" <bob_usenet[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

Because the employees at the IRS service centers have been
known to mistake signatures in black ink for photocopies.

Barney Byrd

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- quote -

It used to be, years ago, that black ink was preferred for
signatures -- and I don't know why. Nowadays, with copiers
so very good, blue ink is (supposed to be) a way to tell
copies from originals.

But -- ever heard of color copies? <g
Catherine

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Bob Sandler wrote:

- quote -

Because any colour really except black will signify which is
the original return. All copies come out black anyway.

Unless of course you're rich and can afford one of those
new fangled colour copiers.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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Bob Sandler <bob_usenet[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

Simply so that "original" signatures can be easily
distinguished from "photocopies." The color doesn't matter
as long as it isn't black. I often like to sign in RED
(representing blood, or a loss, take your pick <g> ).

MTW

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- quote -

That shows it is an orginial signature, not a copied one.
When I have the opportunity to submit an IRS expense report
(I was on an advisory board and I do teach for them) we had
to sign in anything but red or black. Purple was my
favorite, but they prefer blue.

Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
Director, National Assoication of Enrolled Agents
Immediate Past President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents

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- quote -

So it doesn't look like a photocopied signature?

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- quote -

Why is blue ink preferable?

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"rem240sx" <moretzdecoys[at]nospamming.aol.com> wrote:

- quote -

You can be Dumb and I'll be Dumber. However, being as I'm
more experienced than you, I can tell you how you easily can
obtain copies of your prior year Forms W-2. Pay the
customer service staff in your local IRS walk-in office a
visit. Make sure you take picture ID with you. A driver's
license will do. Since I assume you also need copies of
your wife's Forms W-2, she will need to accompany you and
take her own picture ID- or she can make her own separate
trip if that's more convenient. Depending upon how brisk
business is when you arrive, you may have to take a number
and have a seat until called. The wait usually is less than
20 minutes. When you're called to the customer service
window, tell the IRS representative that you need him or her
to print out copies of your prior year Forms W-2 so that you
can get your delinquent prior year returns filed. The IRS
representative should be able to make the copies for you
while you're at the window. IRS does not charge for making
copies of Forms W-2 from its information returns database.
The appearance and format of the IRS-furnished copies are
different than the Forms W-2 you're used to getting directly
from your employer but they're perfectly acceptable for
filing.

One downside to the copies provided by IRS is that they do
not include any state wage information.

When you're ready to file your prior year returns, enclose
each year in a separate envelope, or file them in person at
the walk-in office. Make sure you and your wife both sign
the returns, preferably in blue ink, and include copies of
all Forms W-2. It's important that you retain your own
copies of everything you file with IRS.

Locations and addresses of IRS walk-in offices are available
from the link below.

http://www.irs.gov/localcontacts/index.html

Good luck to you.

Barney Byrd

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rem240sx at moretzdecoys[at]nospamming.aol.com wrote:

- quote -

If you don't file, there is NO statute of limitations. You
are fair game forever.

- quote -

Use your December pay statement and estimate the W2. You
can make your own W-2 as a substitute for the missing one.
All the appropriate numbers should be on there. If the W-2s
were filed and you had enough income to need to file, the
IRS may be on your trail already. It generally takes a year
or more after the filing deadline.

All freely provided advice guarantee correct or double your
money back

Frank S. Duke, Jr. CPA
Cincinnati, OH USA

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Ok filed this years taxes and me and my wife have come to
the realization that through our own stupidity and dumb
procrastination, our taxes for the past two years were never
sent in. during the first year of which we probably owe
some money and obviously the penalties and interest. Last
year our financial situation is pretty much unchanged from
this year so we might be in a position to receive a refund
from that year as we did this year. The problem lies in the
fact that I can't find our tax information in our paperwork
files as of yet. I know I can download all appropiate froms
other than obtaining my w2's. The company I worked for in
the first year of unfiled taxes is no longer in business and
hasn't been in business for some time.

Now for the question, How do I go about obtaining the w2
information from that year since I have no way of contacting
that ex employer. I read somewhere about obtaining the info
from SSA or something but lost the site information where I
found it. I also remember reading somewhere that this can be
done but state info is omitted in that case, unfortunately I
will need to file those respective state returns also, how
do I go about obtaining that info for the state of MD.
Hopefully someone that is smarter or more experienced than
me can help me get out of the mess I have created for me and
my wife. Thanks in advance for any info anyone might have.

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