carqs123[at]hotmail.com (Jack SaturnOwner) writes:

- quote -

It really bothers me to see people who will contrive any
convoluted explanation they can just to avoid having to
admit (to themselves or others) that they made a mistake.

As I've already explained, the text presented by TurboTax's
EasyStep interview when it asks what you want to do with
your refund is so simple that even a fool could understand
it. Unfortunately, the fool has to *read* it to understand
it, and you didn't bother to do that. Claiming that TurboTax
has a design flaw because you didn't bother to read the 41
words in big letters asking you what to do with your refund
is simply ludicrous.

Furthermore, what you wrote above is simply not true. The
EasyStep interview has a "Show Tax Form" button at the
bottom of the EasyStep interview. If you click it, then
from then until you click "Hide Forms," every form and its
contents are displayed as you answer the EasyStep questions
about it.

This is very simple, really: YOU MADE A MISTAKE, AND IT'S
GOING TO COST YOU, at least for a while. Please stop
blaming everyone but yourself.

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- quote -

I have found that all the versions of consumer Turbotax are
essentially the same. All you get for the extra money is
stuff that is available for free on the net. In fact, there
is precious little you can do with Intuit ProSeries that you
can't do with Turbotax. Unfortunately, E-Filing as an ERO
for your clients is one of them.

The only one that is worth the extra money is Turbotax for
Business. It will do 1041s, 1065s, etc. and it is about
$100.

All freely provided advice guarantee correct or double your
money back

Frank S. Duke, Jr. CPA
Cincinnati, OH USA

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When my then wife and now ex wife did my taxes I used to
look over her shoulder. I knew all about the feature I
goofed on. After some thought I realized what was in my
opinion a design flaw.

When you fill out your taxes by hand, you see the line
directly above and below. You see that the next space is
for filling in check account information. With TurboTax
you answer the current question a certain way, and you are
not taken down a path that you did not choose. You do not
see the other path. It is not presented. Out of sight out
of mind.

After I did my return I called my ex to ask her wasn't there
a feature which allows you to specify checking account auto
deposit? She said, yeah. I went back and double checked my
work and found the problem.

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Timothy E. Kelly, Esq. wrote:
- quote -

(snipped........)

- quote -

I'm thinking that more and more people are turning to
software purchased at Sam's, Wal-mart, etc to do it themself
and thereby getting themselves deeper into it.

However the exception proves the rule maybe. This year new
client hadn't filed last year, partly cause he owed 1,300
plus and ALSO, and I suspect this the main reason, his wife
refused to sign the return he prepared with TurboTax. He
showed it to me, and nowhere were names capitalized; all
lower case. So I thought to meself here is first indication
he might not know what he was doing.

but lo and behold, every number was right in place, from
wages from W2, to the child credits, and deducts on
schedule a. Only thing was instead of itmized tool
expense, safety equip, etc etc he called it all
"miscellaneous fees."

I jokingly asked if he wanted a job, but he declined. He
makes more money than I do tearing down houses and
buildings! lol

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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- quote -

If it saves two hours of time (including answering IRS
letters about an arithmetic mistake) then that price is
worth it. The $20 basic version, aften discounted to less
than that, is adequate for many people.

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Timothy E. Kelly, Esq. wrote:

- quote -

I would also add that you are talking about those who end up
taking a position that ends up with an assessment. Probably
as many, if not more, individuals make the opposite
mistake--foul up their returns in a way that ends up with
the individual overpaying his/her taxes, sometimes by a
significant amount.

For simple returns (a W-2, one or two 1099-INTs or
1099-DIVs, and relatively small amount of home mortgage
interest) it's very likely the "do it yourself" approach
will work for someone not trained in tax matters. However,
once you start adding to the complexity, it becomes less
likely that the do-it-yourselfer will get it right.

The real test is this--are you *relying* on the computer to
do the return or are you using it solely to eliminate rote
calculations? If you can do the return by hand and
understand what you are doing, then you likely are safe
using the computer to prepare it for you and just eliminate
the drugery. You still need to carefully review the output
of the computer (GIGO still applies <grin> and sometimes the
software doesn't react to an entry the way you think it
will) and you can only do that if you know enough to know
what the return should look like.

The second big problem--you cannot *interpret* guidance that
is already interpretive guidance--that is, the IRS
Publications, instructions and tax product help
files/interview systems. Regularly we see people who had a
situation that didn't quite fit the description in one of
the above, and so they started "reasoning" from a phrase in
one of those sources and came up with an answer that is
simply wrong.

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

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Jack SaturnOwner wrote:

- quote -

Well if you do get it prematurely refunded, it'll be a first
in my experience.

I THINK that person at IRS "mispoke". Even if that were
possible, I can't imagine a person at IRS taking your
"instructions" over the phone to issue a check.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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carqs123[at]hotmail.com (Jack SaturnOwner) wrote:

- quote -

Rather than let your ex-wife or a generic software package
do your tax return, why not let a tax professional,
specifically an EA or a CPA do your tax return? I cannot
tell you how many times per year I receive calls asking for
guidance on tax court matters because someone thought they
could just do their taxes without professional guidance.

Cry about the complexity of the tax system all you want, but
the reality remains it requires considerable knowledge and
expertise to do right. Software is woefully inadequate for
all but the most simple returns, but an incredible amount of
people believe they can do as well as a tax professional.
This is the very essence of the proverbial penny wise and
pound foolish. Inevitably it will cost these people far more
than they save by the do it yourself attitude. Just look at
the depth of knowledge and expertise on this forum, and look
at the complexity of some of the issues, and you will have
no choice but to conclude doing one's own taxes is like
trying to do one's own root canal. In other words, don't try
this at home.

Timothy E Kelly
Attorney at Law
Certified Specialist, Taxation law
State Bar of California, Board of Legal Specialization

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- quote -

I'd be surprised (shocked??) if that is correct information.
Let us know if it happens.

Will

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- quote -

Congratulations. You got one of those IRS employees you
hear about that give bad information. It's your $.37, but
you're not getting the money back until your file 2004,
unless you revise your W-4.

Phil Marti
Topeka, KS

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Easy.

I bought TurboTax Premier Home and Business for $80.
It had the forms I needed. There were many cheaper
versions which had less functionality.

I was married before. And for the past few years my
ex wife did my taxes. This was a first for me.

Hey, I made a mistake. I saw 2004 and saw the word
applied.

Anyway I called the IRS and they said that after it gets
processed I can call them and have them send the check
now instead of applying the money to next year's taxes.

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Jack SaturnOwner <carqs123[at]hotmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

I'll bet they asked How much of the refund do you want
credited towards your 2004 taxes?

- quote -

They were wrong, as you correctly noted below.

- quote -

Well, when you file your 2004 return in 2005 you will get
vredit for the tax credited towards 2004.

In the meanwhile you can increase the exemptions on your W-4
form to request the employer to withhold less from your pay,
since you have a credit on your account already.

At year end be sure to file another W-4 to bring things back
the way they should be.

__
Art Kamlet ArtKamlet [at] AOL.com Columbus OH K2PZH

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carqs123[at]hotmail.com (Jack SaturnOwner) writes:

- quote -

If you paid $80 for TurboTax, you paid at least twice as
much as you should have and perhaps even three times as much
as you should have. I don't think $80 was even the *retail*
price, at least not for the deluxe version. Maybe that was
the retail price for the highest version whose name I forget
one level up from deluxe, but considering that you
apparently couldn't even figure out how to use the
functionality of the deluxe version properly, I don't think
buying the version with even more functionality, if that's
what you did, was a particularly wise investment.

I don't think you can blame TurboTax for handling your
refund incorrectly. I'm looking at the language in
TurboTax's EasyStep interview surrounding this, and quite
frankly I find it extremely hard to imagine how anyone could
answer the question incorrectly. It reads:

Amount Applied to Estimates

You can apply all (or just a part) of your refund of $XXX to your
2004 estimated tax payments.

Enter the amount, if any, of your refund you want to apply to your
2004 estimated tax payments.

Apply to 2004 Estimated Taxes: _____

Never does TurboTax ask you "how much of the refund [you]
want in 2004."

Perhaps you're right that you shouldn't have used TurboTax;
if you aren't capable of reading and understanding plain
English, then yeah, I guess TurboTax isn't the right tool
for you.

Another error you appear to have made is failing to review
your return before filing it. You apparently assumed that
the computer would do the right thing. Bad assumption.
Regardless of whether your return was prepared by TurboTax,
your ex-wife, or your accountant, you should read and
understand it before you sign it. YOU are the one attesting
to its correctness, not TurboTax, your ex-wife, or your
accountant. If you can't understand the return as prepared
by TurboTax, than you probably need to pay someone who can
explain it to prepare it to you.

- quote -

You are toast. As the Form 1040 instructions say, "This
election to apply part or all of the amount overpaid to your
2004 estimated tax cannot be changed later."

What you can do is adjust your 2004 withholding to withhold
less to compensate for what you've already paid. To do
this, you need to calculate how much you expect to owe in
2004, subtract what you've already paid, and then calculate
your withholding based on your salary, paycheck frequency,
etc. to withhold the rest.

TurboTax will do this all for you, but given your track
record, you may want to get an accountant to help you with
it.

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I should have let my ex wife do my taxes. Instead I bought
TurboTax for $80. When it asked how much of the refund I
wanted in 2004 I answered all of it. It appears that I
won't get the money until 2005. I chatted with the online
TurboTax help folks and they said no problem, just fill out
amended forms 1040X and California form 540X.

Well these forms do not have provisions for changing the
error, and the instructions specifically say "You cannot
change the election to apply part or all of the overpayment
on line 22 to next year's estimated tax"

Am I toast? Or is there a way to fix this mess?

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