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| Michael T Wing CPA wrote: - quote - > And, yes, it will remain to be seen whether this was simply
The fact that it is a Revenue Ruling makes it a little> an accommodation to a particular industry practice, or > whether it has broader application. I suspect that it could > also apply to (say) pizza delivery drivers, but somehow I > can't see it applying to fatcat corporate executives. difficult for the IRS to ignore their logic (or lack of it <grin> ) in arriving at the conclusion that inclusion in income is equal to the refund requirement so long as the initial payment is reasonable by some objective standard. -- Ed Zollars, CPA Phoenix, Arizona << -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << -------------------------------------------------> |
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| Ed Zollars, CPA <ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote: - quote - > While I agree that seems to fly in the fact of the IRC
I suppose I could "buy into" this ruling if the IRS was> itself, the IRS has now interpreted the regulation to allow > the structure mentioned, at least for courier services. > Note that the ruling itself simply goes straight by the > issue of the employee being able to retain the excess. simply attempting to develop a "de minimus" standard - something along the lines that a "plan" will be deemed in compliance so long as the employer's "guestimated" reimbursement amount is computed with sufficient precision that ~few~ retroactive adjustments are necessary and/or such adjustments are relatively ~small~ in dollar amount. However, I don't think that's what they had in mind. <g And, yes, it will remain to be seen whether this was simply an accommodation to a particular industry practice, or whether it has broader application. I suspect that it could also apply to (say) pizza delivery drivers, but somehow I can't see it applying to fatcat corporate executives. - quote - > Maybe you can look at this as "Frequent Flyer Miles, Part
Well, at least in this case the beneficiaries are the SMALL> II" <grin> . GUYS !! <g MTW << -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << -------------------------------------------------> |
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| Michael T Wing CPA wrote: - quote - > But, I still don't understand why situation 1 should "fly"
If push came to shove, I presume the IRS would hang its hat> in the absence of an ACTUAL REFUND requirement. ??? on Regulation 1.62-2(c)(2)(ii) which provides: "Special rule for failure to return excess. If an arrangement meets the requirements of paragraphs (d), (e), and (f) of this section, but the employee fails to return, within a reasonable period of time, any amount in excess of the amount of the expenses substantiated in accordance with paragraph (e) of this section, only the amounts paid under the arrangement that are not in excess of the substantiated expenses are treated as paid under an accountable plan." Now that's interesting when you look at the IRC itself on this matter, which provides at 62(c): "For purposes of subsection (a)(2)(A) , an arrangement shall in no event be treated as a reimbursement or other expense allowance arrangement if— (1) such arrangement does not require the employee to substantiate the expenses covered by the arrangement to the person providing the reimbursement, or (2) such arrangement provides the employee the right to retain any amount in excess of the substantiated expenses covered under the arrangement. " Now you can argue the regulation is "OK" if the employee fails to pay back the money, even though required--the regulation indicated what you would do if unable to get it back. However, this ruling now expands that so that the plan can be *designed* so that employee will fail to pay it back. While I agree that seems to fly in the fact of the IRC itself, the IRS has now interpreted the regulation to allow the structure mentioned, at least for courier services. Note that the ruling itself simply goes straight by the issue of the employee being able to retain the excess. Maybe you can look at this as "Frequent Flyer Miles, Part II" <grin> . -- Ed Zollars, CPA Phoenix, Arizona << -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << -------------------------------------------------> |
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| Ed Zollars, CPA <ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote: - quote - > Revenue Ruling 2004-1 shows both how to get awfully close to
Would it be fair to say that this is first time that the IRS> that result--and also shows how to foul it up. has explicitly approved of a "plan" that did not require the ACTUAL REFUND of amounts in excess of the "accounted" amount? Otherwise, this is a bit mind-numbing. I gather situation 1 could be described as follows: The employer pays a base commission of (say) 30% of the delivery fee, plus a guestimated mileage reimbursement of (say) 10%. The 10% figure is based on an actual analysis of employee expense reports during the prior year. If the employee's actual mileage would result in a greater reimbursement using the standard mileage allowance, that's too bad. <g> The employee does not receive reimbursement for such excess, but might nevertheless be entitled to a tax deduction for such excess amount. If, on the other hand, the actual mileage is less than the reimbursement rate, the employer will adjust the employee's taxable compensation accordingly. No amounts need be refunded to the employer. Under situation 2, the employers pays a total commission of (say) 40%, without any specific breakdown between "services" and "mileage." If/when the employee submits a report of actual mileage, the employer will retroactively adjust the taxable compensation amount to recognize an exclusion for the mileage portion. The amount that can be reclassified is apparently unlimited. Does that pretty well describe it? But, I still don't understand why situation 1 should "fly" in the absence of an ACTUAL REFUND requirement. ??? MTW << -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << -------------------------------------------------> |
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| The IRS issued an interesting Revenue Ruling recently that describes both how to and how not to design an accountable pln to absorb employee business expenses. As we all know, expenses an employee pays personally are only deductible to the extent they exceed 2% of adjusted gross income and is not allowed at all for AMT purposes. However, if the employer pays the expenses, they are not included in the employee's income, no payroll taxes are due and likely the employer gets a full tax deduction for the payment. However, if an employer *reimburses* the employee for expenses incurred, they may only be excluded if they are reimbursed under an accountable plan that meets the requirements of IRC Section 62(c). An employee also cannot have the "option" of taking a payment as salary or reimbursement--only in the area of Section 125 plans and the various elective salary deferrals can employees "convert" salary into nontaxable benefits "on the fly" at their own discretion (the IRS has ruled there are various cases where an employee, before a year begins, may have such an option for certain other benefits, but we'll ignore that here <grin> ). Of course, what the employee and employer would love to be able to do is take a portion of the employee's salary that is paid as salary, and convert that to be treated as a reimbursement under Section 62(c) once that reimbursed amount is known. In that case, the employer would not have to pay payroll taxes and the employee would avoid the problems of employee business expenses. Revenue Ruling 2004-1 shows both how to get awfully close to that result--and also shows how to foul it up. Both cases involve payments to courier employees who have their own vehicles. In case 1, an employee is paid both a base commission of one rate, and a mileage reimbursement commission of another rate. The employer has set the mileage reimbursement commission based on the employer's recent history of actual mileage expense incurred by couriers on jobs. The employees must report the actual mileage back to the employer on a monthly basis, and if the employee has been compensated in excess of the IRS mileage allowance for his actual miles, that amount is added back to the employee's taxable income and payroll taxes are paid. In case 2, the employee is paid a flat rate Y. At the end of the month, the employee again reports actual mileage to the employer. The employer then subtracts the mileage rate from the commissions paid, and treats that as a reimbursement. The IRS rules that case 1 *IS* an accountable plan and that the lessor of the reimbursement paid under the plan or the actual mileage times the IRS rate can be excluded from the employee's income. However, case 2 is *NOT* an accountable plan, and all amounts must be included in income, payroll taxes paid, and the employee has to claim the miscellaneous itemized deduction. The ruling can be read at: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-04-2.pdf Why this result? Well, the key factors appear to be that in case 1 the employer set a maximum reimbursement ahead of time and that rate was based on realistic and measured expectations based on actual past results. Case 2 is a problem because it is an attempt to reclassify something that was paid as wages into excludable amounts *after* the fact. This ruling is useful, though, because it tells us that a plan *can* be designed to allow for the expected allocated of payments to an accountable plan. It also shows that the IRS does have limits as well, and they expect employers to pay attention to those limits. -- Ed Zollars, CPA Phoenix, Arizona << -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << -------------------------------------------------> |
| Tags |
| accountable, plans, ruling |
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