- quote -

They wouldn't have known, of course. It seems as though a
letter would have been a much better route than having an
officer drive that distance.

Carol

What can one expect of a day that begins with getting out of bed.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

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- quote -

Well, there is your reason!

Since the RO might not know where the temporary site office
is and the corporation address of record is a PO BOX, the
next logical place to contact (IN PERSON) is the Owners
Residence!

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- quote -


- quote -

Good question.

- quote -

Carol

What can one expect of a day that begins with getting out of bed.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

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- quote -

I believe her card said "agent". I will check on Monday.

Carol

What can one expect of a day that begins with getting out of bed.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

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- quote -


- quote -


Phil Marti
Topeka, KS

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"Phil Marti" <philmarti[at]aol.com> wrote:

- quote -

Howdy Phil,

- quote -

patterns.
They use a variety of flashy publications and communication mediums, WEB pages, WEB-CAST, Seminars,
partnering with other agencies with similar interest to convey their message.

- quote -

entities and getting out on the "verge of non-compliance" (FTD-ALERTS), Recent quarter TDA's &
TDI's now called (BAL-DUES & DEL-RETS).

- quote -


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- quote -

What address does the corp use on its filings? How
experienced is the agent? (An inexperienced agent may not
realize the power of the telephone.) I can think of a few
other reasons for an agent to make a visit before a phone
call.

1. girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse in neighborhood (possible
entry in "How to Live in Sin for Fun and Profit"?)
2. on way home
3. on way to bar
4. subterfuge if would have been late to office
5. excuse to leave early.

As to stretching, until I had back surgery a month ago I had
to do some stretching exercises before I could get out of
bed. The first several days I was home I had to sleep on the
sofa so I could roll onto the floor and get up from there.

Gary

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- quote -

LOL. If he lived in my town the "post office problem" might
be the key. I'm still waiting on concert tickets from 1995!

- quote -

It was a nice day and it has been real pretty out in that
area. <G
- quote -

LOL. Only way I can get out of bed these days! It hurts
too much to do otherwise.

Carol

What can one expect of a day that begins with getting out of bed.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

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- quote -

They left a card. The spouse was not home. In fact, no one
was at home.

What really confused us was the fact that all taxes had been
paid just the returns themselves had not been received (with
the exception of the 1120S which had just been completed).
They were 2002 and 2003 941s.

Carol

What can one expect of a day that begins with getting out of bed.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

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Harlan Lunsford <hlunsfordns[at]bellsouth.net> writes:

- quote -

Well, thanks for pushing one of my buttons. After 7+ years
of retirement you'd think I get over it, but evidently not.

The OP called the IRS employee an "agent" in error. We
(including those of us who are defrocked) Revenue OFFICERS
have been known to get cranky when slapped with the label of
"agent." Revenue officers are compliance officers, not
pencil pushers doing audits. "Oh, don't worry about how
you're going to pay it. The folks in Collection will talk
to you about that. Sign here."

I still remember the first day it rained after I became an
R/O. Regardless of what we had scheduled, we were ordered
to load up a full day's work an hit the street in order to
prove that revenue officers don't melt in the rain. A lot
has changed, but the fact that an R/O wouldn't have the case
if it could have been resolved through correspondence and
phone calls hasn't. The R/O's job is in large part out of
the office, not in.

Phil Marti
Topeka, KS

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"Charles Markham, EA" <goaheadandspamaway[at]aol.com> writes:

- quote -

This is wonderful news.

I used to keep a stash of "Your Business Taxes", f/k/a "Mr.
Business Man's" kits in the trunk of my car. When I saw a
new business in my territory I'd stop in within the month
for a quick howdy-do, my card, and a suggestion not to get
behind in employment taxes. That plus a mention that it
wouldn't take them long to find a neighboring business that
could tell them what happens when you do get behind led to
wonderful compliance. When I was promoted out of that area
I had no in-business employment taxpayers.

IMO it's a shame that the IRS has gotten so far away from
preventing problems before they start. Nowadays it seems
like by the time they get there it's hopeless. It's nice to
hear your story and from Taxman Hog that they're actually
working FTD alerts. Maybe there's a cause for hope.

Phil Marti
Topeka, KS

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Carol:

I have seen this exact same thing happen recently. The IRS
goes on various projects. I believe they recently decided
to have Revenue Officers visit small businesses that have a
history of being slightly "irregular" in their filings. I
had two cases of this in the Boston area. You described the
scenario to a T.

I know you feel this was a waste of taxpayer money, but I
must think that for my clients it really was a wake up call,
and really a very inexpensive one for the IRS. Just the
travel time, and I think sloppy lackadasical filing habits
are "stepping stones" to getting very behind in things like
payroll taxes.

So, while I agree it wasn't the standard operating
procedure, it must be a new one.

Charles

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- quote -

Probably notices were mailed, since that's SOP for IRS.
Where they ended up is anybody's guess. (Change of
address? Post office problems?)

But you know there is one more possibility,and that is that
the IRS agent who was assigned the case needed an excuse to
get out of the office. So instead of using the telephone,
she took a whole day, see what I mean? I find even the
rare audits that I do indulge in, it's always at my office,
cause these local IRS types just love to get out of the
office.

- quote -

One thing you might try before bounding out of bed is waking
up gradually, stretching like a snake, bending and
stretching, exercising in bed before the feet hit the floor.

Cheer$,
HL

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- quote -

He did move his business location but it was probably more
like 4 or 5 years ago. It has been quite some time at any
rate. He's a builder, so he works out of a construction
office in the subdivision.

Carol

What can one expect of a day that begins with getting out of bed.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

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- quote -

Neither do we. However, we are quick to remind them that we
can only tell them what they need to pay. It is up to them
to actually *do* that.

- quote -

As far as we can tell, no letters had been sent to ANY
address for this client--his business address or home
address. And his home address has either NEVER shown up on
returns for the corporation or haven't in several years.
<G> And we missed putting his new home address on his K-1
this past year.

Carol

What can one expect of a day that begins with getting out of bed.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

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- quote -

The final act of accounting, --IS-- the filing of the
returns, it completes circular loop of automated checks &
balances.

Example: In the last six months I have had SEVERAL cases
which involved 941 accounts where the TP had made all their
FTD's deposits on time and in perfect amounts, but failed to
file the 941 returns, 1, 2, 3 & 4 quarters in a row!?

What logical reason could explain this?

When I made contact, it became apparent that the TP either
changed payroll systems, service companies, or signed up for
EFTPS, in all cases they appeared to develop the perception
that the return(s) were being filed by the act of either
ADP/PAYCHEX/INTERPAY executing the deposits currently that
the period prior to the transition would be taken care of,
it never did, and in these particular cases it was a one
period 941 filing lapse.

One CPA, thought that by making the TELEPHONE EFTPS deposit
that they were also fulfilling their obligation to file the
941, not so of course, I got her straightened out, things
are resolved.

In all these cases once I secured the TAX RETURN, it posted
and settled to Status-10 (No balance due no refund due)
perfect! The end result of all these cases was an
opportunity to show the professional face of the IRS to Tax
payers with Benin (retrospectively speaking) issues.

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- quote -

I see the RRA-98 pendulum starting to swing in the other
direction, HQ's advice to the field to clamp down on
excessive delays in making what is called FIRST CONTACT, by
issuing preliminary letters before field contact.

I personally am still trying to find the correct balance of
soft handling VS Blitzkrieg handling, timing and turn over
to close cases is the driving force, risking poor quality
investigations & unprofessional conduct and inappropriate
dispositions might be the end result of this campaign.

Not that I would allow that to happen myself, I can & do see
it happening in the office.

In the above case and the original posters statement, I saw
lack of professionalism by the RO by NOT identifying
themselves! All field personnel are required to Identify
themselves by MR./MS Surname, and Employee Number!, they can
leave a calling card which contains this information.

The only excuse I can make, and it's lame, is that THIRD
PARTY pre warnings were not sent, and the Officer/Agent was
aware of that fact, they tried to remain discreet after
encountering the spouse, this behavior was a unsuccessful
attempt to NOT violate the privacy of the TAXPAYER being
investigated, they ended up making investigative
disclosures, and embarrassed the Business Owner.

Some of the investigations being done with minimal
precontact by letter are: FTD ALERTS

This is a type of case where the 941 tax deposits are
suddenly slowing in a QUARTER, the master file generated a
letter to the TP asking why they are slow in depositing, in
the old days (six months ago and prior) a paper follow-up
record is also printed for tax examiners or revenue officers
to follow-up on when time permits.

The NEW & IMPROVED version of ICS release last summer now
allows these PAPER ALERT FOLLOW-UP records to load in a
group managers incoming inventory immediately, he then has
to triage & assign these to all his Officers, who in turn
++++NEED++++ to make in person contact in FIFTEEN DAYS, or
else! bad reviews will result.

No more playing games with the timing of this compliance
investigation! The follow-up activity in the case is
critical to both seriously non compliant taxpayers and
marginal non-compliant, This is what early intervention is
all about, if I recall correctly it was an issue with GAO,
Congress and the President that the IRS get out there and
stop the hemorrhaging. This automation improvement combined
with RRA-98 protocols, and schizophrenic Management
attitudes HQ & LOCAL, leaves the RO stuck in a kind of
dilemma.

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"Wayne Brasch" <waynebrasch[at]stowetel.com> wrote:
- quote -

I'm glad to hear someone else make this statement. I've
noticed this with the last couple of audits I've been
involved with.

Joel Berry, CPA
Sugar Land, Texas

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CLJ1219 wrote:

- quote -

In general, home visits are usually scheduled in advance.
During my IRS career, there were only two exceptions that I
know of (and did):

1) In the "non-filer" program, IRS employees (including
myself) would actively go into the field without
announcement looking for those who failed to respond to our
letters and phone calls. Our purpose in doing so was to try
to make contact - or to verify that the taxpayer had moved,
etc....

2) Again, in the "non-filer" program, I once did show up at
the taxpayer's business unannounced. Although the taxpayer
did contact me and send in a tax return, we (my superior and
I) didn't find it credible - and the purpose of the visit
was first to look over the business (he failed to report)
for indications of activity that supported what we thought
might be the true story. The unannounced part was when I
then walked in and informed the taxpayer owner that it
appears that there were descrepencies and that his return
was going to be audited. Upon return to my office, I then
sent him a list of the issues attached to the official
examination opening letter.

Neither of these situations seem close enough to what you
describe with merely late payroll tax returns being
examined. However, also note that I left the IRS about 10
years ago, so policy may have changed. Lastly, it occurs to
me that this could have been a Revenue Officer (i.e.
"collection" agent) call instead of an examination call -
and for some sort of compliance purpose. It does seem
strange that for a business return, the call would come to
the home UNLESS the business changed location in the past 3
years - and for some reason, isn't listed in the local phone
book.

Does the business card address belong to a known IRS office
for your area? If not, you could ask TIGTA - on the grounds
of this being an "irregular visit" (at best) and an IMPOSTOR
case (at worst).

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- quote -

LOL. Not to our knowledge. He is quite happy doing what he
has done for almost 20 years.

- quote -

No. Just don't want a good client, a good citizen harassed.

- quote -

confusing is more like it. It sounded like such a big deal
on Wednesday afternoon only to be handled with "if you will
get me those forms in the mail today we will close this out"
on Thursday.

Carol

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