- quote -

My practice is about 20% ministers and most of them wants to
over pay their taxes because they are concerned that
something isn't deductible. I have yet to find a dishonest
one.

Minister taxes are quite different and if anyone is
interested in a good "minister" tax book, look at Church and
Clergy Tax Guide at www.churchlawtoday.com. Less than $20
and worth every penney.

The biggest mistake I see is made by the employing church.
The church will deduct FICA/Medicare from the minister when
there should be none. Usually this happens with a small
church or a new church.

Mary Ann Thomas, EA in AZ

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- quote -

Mike Malody
GenFinSvcs[at]aol.com
ClergyTaxes[at]aol.com

- quote -

Could it be:
Weber v. Commissioner, 103 T.C. 378, 386 (1994) or
Radde v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo 1997-490 or maybe
PLR 9825002

- quote -

I do agree that I have found more confusion amongst
Methodist clergy. I have not found that it was
intentionally (at least by my judgment), only
misinformation. I had one case where I was in disagreement
with the pastor on how to handle an issue and he was quoting
me his source. I had him go back and ask a question of his
source exactly as I had written it and he found out I was
right.

Maybe I have just had good luck on the draw. Helen, has a
bit of experience with Methodist, I wonder if her experience
has followed yours or mine?

The biggest issue I still seem to see is the Sch C v. W-2
issue. Always seem to be behind the curve on this one.

Anyway, have a great day!

Mike

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- quote -

I wish I knew your real name, would make it easier, or maybe
seem easier to reply. But anyway....

No, I am not kidding one bit. haven't taken a survey of
fellow practitioners lately, except when we talk shop at
seminars, but many will agree with me.

Year before last the Methodist minister of one of the
largest churches in the area showed up at my door, having
been referred by a long time and valued client, and before I
knew his occupation (he had called on the phone) we had set
an apointment. (Had I but known first.... !) Well, to make
a long story short, after I did his return last year, he was
not happy, being faced with a schedule C for services
rendered (baptistms, weddings, etc), nor having to subject
parsonage value to SE tax! And he had been a minister for
30 years, too. Hmmm, what was it with Methodist ministers?
something about that very issue? Some case I'm thinking of
but can't remember right now.

Surely now, you must have audited one back then, no?

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA in LA

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- quote -

I assume that you are kidding. My practice is made up of
approximately 85% clergy...and I have yet to meet a
dishonest one...some that were told by their neighbors they
could do something they couldnt. I would not more consider
them dishonest that I would the CPA or EA was dishonest
that came with their clients when I was an IRS auditor and
made an adverse adjustment on their clients.

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Dick Adams wrote:

- quote -

Limited tax content, but I could that have been related to a
"Rabbi Small" book? (I think there's been a murder in each
of those, but I don't remember any which involved tax
fraud.)

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ricks wrote:

- quote -

Define "make".

If on the last day of 2003 the post office
is open (some say 12/31, but I don't think that is correct)
you mail a contribution then:
-- you have a 2003 deduction claim (the date mailed)
-- the church would record your making a
contribution in 2004 (the date received).

So, for the question asked in your first sentence, "Yes",
if "make" refers to the church recording the contribution.
Indeed, this is, I believe, commonly done by taxpayers
doubling up deductions into alternate years so they can
itemize deductions one year and take the standard deduction
next year.

Since there are, except for an instant, 2 dates
in effect at the same time, you could use a pay by phone
account, calling from a location with a Jan 1 date to a
location where the date was still Dec 31 to a financial
institution that would make the payment before their date
changed to Jan 1. Another "yes" to your 1st question.

Your question did not specify the instrument used for the
donation, there are specific "When to Deduct" rules for
each. There are none, that I am aware of, where you can
"act" January 15 and claim a deduction in the prior year.

dick w

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D. Stussy wrote:
- quote -

I'm still scratching my head over this one, too.

When the OP says the church "regularly publishes in the
January newsletter", the only thing I can think of is that
is the window in which the church will backdate the
contributions as having been received.

Another reason I will not do preacher's (ministers, etc -
clery) tax returns. Never met an honest one.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA in LA

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- quote -

No!

- quote -

I'm sure the IRS would love to talk to that newsletter
editor and the heads of that church.

Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents
Campaigning for NAEA Board of Directors - Looking for YOUR vote

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- quote -

No, it is not!

- quote -

Yes, it's called tax fraud.

I have seen this twice before. The response I received was
we need the money. An IRS agent once told me the joke about
the minister who was asked if a certain parishioner had
donated $5000 to the church in a prior year. The minister
replied "Don't worry. If he didn't, he will."

The first 14 years of my education was in parochial schools
including two years in a seminary. I have never been able
to get past the disgust of how the clergy in general really
and truly believes that they are above the law.

Back in the 70's I saw a play where a Rabbi was in big
trouble with his congregation becuase he would not allow
the synagogue to be used for a casino night. To me, it
was a great play because the Rabbi didn't cave in.

Dick

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ricks wrote:

- quote -

That is wrong. However, was the church trying to address
the clearing of checks for year-end donations? The check
still has to be dated on or before 12/31 (and issued) to
count.

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fss[at]altavista.net (ricks) writes:

- quote -

No

- quote -

The world is full of specialists nowadays. For the same
reason that you don't go to an accountant for spiritual
guidance, you don't go to a church for tax guidance.

Phil Marti
Topeka, KS

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Is it possible to make a charitable donation in January 2004
and still claim the deduction in 2003? I had always thought
that charitable donations were only deductible for the year
actually made (except carryovers). The reason I ask, my
friend's church regularly publishes in the January
newsletter that members of the congregation have until Jan
15 to make a donation and still claim it? Is there some
ruling or law interpretation that I'm not aware of?

TIA

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