Michael T Wing CPA wrote:

- quote -

(snipped)

Just had a random thought about this paperless idea.

Another tax preparer I know has been paperless for years.
She requires her clients to bring in last year's return,
even if she prepared it, just in case she needs it.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA in LA

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Jo Firey <jofirey[at]netzero.net> wrote:

- quote -

Hmmm... Now that I have the prior year copies "frozen" in
PDF, that just might work. I've always hated to have two
year's worth of the tax program open simultaneously because
it is way too easy to accidentally screw up the prior year
file.

- quote -

I agree, that makes a lot of sense.

MTW

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I just took Gear Up's Technology Seminar and personally, I'm
ready to dump every piece of paper <G> . It was fantastic
and if you are thinking of going paperless, it is a
wonderful way to spend a day.

Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents
Campaigning for NAEA Board of Directors - Looking for YOUR vote

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Michael T Wing CPA" <mtwingcpa[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
- quote -

We maintain the last 3 years in paper. Perhaps I will
eventually decide to keep only the most recent. Since we
don't work from the scanned workpapers when preparing the
return it is possible that a page will not be scanned.
Sometimes 2 get pulled through at the same time just like
happens on the copier.

Drew Edmundson, CPA (NC)
e-mail is my first name at nccpa dot com

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"Michael T Wing CPA" <mtwingcpa[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
- quote -

I got surprisingly good at using the computer copy of the
prior year return in a separate window while working on the
current year return. Simply because I have to do all my own
filing and its easier. For years I've made sure to make
notes in the computer tax file that I might need to refer to
rather than sticking handwritten notes into the paper file.
So while I'm not paperless, I do usually manage to only
touch a given piece of paper as few times as possible.

Jo

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Gene Prescott <PrescottG[at]TaxTechCPA.com> wrote:

- quote -

You know, that's a darn good point. I still prefer to have a
"paper" copy of last year's return in hand while I'm working
on this year's model. So, I suspect that I won't be happy
going "immediately" paperless.

But, at this point in the year when 2002 returns are
~almost~ done, I could probably toss the 2001 paper copies,
etc.

MTW

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"Ed Zollars, CPA" <ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote:

- quote -

We've stuck with PDF files for 5 years now ... so we are
fairly committed to being able to read those forever :-)

From an "operational" standpoint we have started waiting a
year before actually shredding a year's paper (we scan paper
as well as produce PDF outputs from programs). We have
discovered that the highest frequency of need tends to fall
in that period and that finding a specific piece of paper is
still more expeditious with actual paper. We keep all
historical PDF's online and backed up via our normal nightly
backups.

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Ed Zollars, CPA" <ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote:
- quote -

Didn't I say the same thing? Couldn't resist.

From my post: "Whether 'XDocs' will be the next MS Tax
Software or it will be the next Internet Explorer only the
Phantom knows."

snip

Drew Edmundson, CPA (NC)
e-mail is my first name at nccpa dot com

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Ed Zollars, CPA wrote:

- quote -

Make that *Excel* supports old 123 files...

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

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Ed Zollars, CPA <ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote:

- quote -

I didn't want to be accused of promoting any particular package,
but since you asked... <g> The PIM is Called Time & Chaos
available from:

www.chaossoftware.com

I sprang for their "product bundle" that includes some extra
goodies, including:

1) A time & charges module - kind of simplistic, but
probably adequate for a small firm. I usually DON'T bill by
the hour, but like to occasionally track time as a "reality
check."

2) A Windows Address Book utility that allows you to update
the WAB with your "Chaos" contact information at the click
of a button. This assures that email addresses and FAX
numbers are available to ~any~ program that can read the
WAB. (And, of course, now that I have a "hot" WAB on my
machine, some extra security and virus protections are in
order.)

- quote -

live far enough out in the sticks that process servers can't
find me. <g
MTW

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Drew Edmundson wrote:

- quote -

PDF may now be very difficult to remove from the scene,
especially as government agencies have standardized on it as
their "standard format" and we know it takes them ages to
change anything <grin> . As well, Microsoft doesn't always
"win" when they try to get a foothold in a field--Microsoft
Money has hardly driven Intuit out of the market, and their
attempts at business accounting solutions have misfired so
many times it's not funny.

They may be able to establish an alternative standard (kind
of like WMA vs. MP3), but it will likely be years before
they would be able to "wipe out" PDF. Most likely, their
viewers would likely need to be able to read PDF at this
point to get a foothold.

And, heck, doesn't 123 still support old DOS Lotus 123
files? After a certain point a file format simply becomes
too widely used to be easily "killed" off, although you may
effectively freeze the creation of new files.

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

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Michael T Wing CPA <mtwingcpa[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
- quote -

MS is going to compete with PDF so PDF may or may not be
around for awhile. Whether "XDocs" will be the next MS Tax
Software or it will be the next Internet Explorer only the
Phantom knows.

FWIW I use PDF.

Drew Edmundson, CPA (NC)
e-mail is my first name at nccpa dot com

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Michael T Wing CPA wrote:

- quote -

I think for a small firm, the problems with a proprietary
system outweigh any advantages. While, in theory, you get
rid of having to manage the nuts and bolts of organizing
your information, the problem is that you have to adapt to
the program's way of looking at the world (does it want
client codes in a specific format? Is it going to work
solely via names? How does it think archiving should be
handled?) and you have the issue of getting "locked in" to a
proprietary system. Even if the program uses PDF as the
file format (and most seem to do that now), it likely will
use its own proprietary database system for filing and
retrieving the data.

For a larger firm these problems are offset by the advantage
of not having a filing system that only your "technical
expert" understands (so if he/she leaves the firm, you have
a problem <grin> ), being able to have the software enforce
filing/name standards (a real problem the more people that
get involved) and hopefully an "easier to use" retrieval
system that even a partner can understand <grin> .

- quote -

I would agree that PCL is a format that could go
away--Windows renders the issue of printer driver languages
less crucial than it used to be, both because you can
integrate the driver in the operating system *and* because
the sheer size of the Windows installed base pretty much
insurers that any printer manufacturer that wants to sell
product had better ship the printer with its own Windows driver.

For non-Windows OSs, PostScript appears to be the far more
important standard.

- quote -

Which PIM did you end up going with? I'm doing a "nuts and
bolts" presentation on this topic in Tulsa, Oklahoma in
December and I know CPAs like real world stories and details.

The names will be changed to protect the innocent...<grin
--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

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Michael T Wing CPA <mtwingcpa[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

And that turned out to be a smart move. <g
On September 15th, the "Tax View" PCL viewer "timed out" and
the developer announced that they would NOT extend its life
due to the fact that the IRS was no longer publishing forms
in PCL format.

Sometimes, timing is ~everything~. <g
MTW

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CPA Ed Zollars <ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote:

- quote -

Agreed that I wouldn't want to get dragged into a
proprietary system. Hopefully PDF will be around for a
while. <g> Meantime, I've been converting older files that
are in PCL format as I suspect the days of that format
(seemingly dependent on DOS) are numbered.

I decided to blow $75 bucks on a new PIM that allows files
to be linked to client names. The setup looks pretty easy:
You can locate the files with the Windows search tool and
then "drag" them en masse to the client's file association
page. Once there, they look and behave like shortcuts.

So, I should end up with the files "by year" on my hard
drive, but indexed "by client" via the PIM. Could be "sweet"
.... we'll see. <g
MTW

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Michael T Wing CPA wrote:

- quote -

paperless systems for CPAs. My main concern there is both a
potential problem if the system uses a proprietary file
format to store its output and the problem of "lock in"
since it's unlikely the product will easily export these
associations to another product.

They will tend to have two effects. First, you will likely
be forced to upgrade the software, since over time it is
very likely that "new" Microsoft OS packages will have
compatibility issues with "old" software. Second, and more
of a problem, if the package is orphaned you both will need
to start over with your system *and* may find yourself
unable to access the old data.

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

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CPA Ed Zollars <ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote:

- quote -

And, you can use the search tool to initially locate the
files "by client" and then create the shortcuts en masse.

Perhaps a more elegant way to do this (if you don't mind
buying some additional software <g> ) would be by using a PIM
that allows you to link files to a "contact" name. (I assume
it does this by creating shortcuts in the background,
somewhere). That way you would ALSO have client name and
address information handy. You could even link to tax
program files (my tax program can be launched based on "file
associations").

Sounds nifty, but it might be quite a project to set up. <g
MTW

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"Arthur Kamlet" <kamlet[at]panix.com> wrote:
- quote -

I won't send a copy to a third party without a signed
release from my client. In a CPE course on ethics, we were
told that to do otherwise is a criminal, not civil,
violation of the IRC. I've never investigated to see if the
statement is accurate, but the lawyer/CPA teaching the class
is the guy who represents most of the CPAs in Houston and
Dallas before the State Board in disciplinary matters.

I usually don't send signed copies for distribution to third
parties. I'll e-mail a signed copy to a client if I'm
e-filing their return.

Joel Berry, CPA
Sugar Land, Texas

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Michael T Wing CPA wrote:

- quote -

Well, if you want to use *only* tools in Windows (assuming
that's your OS of virtually forced choice <grin> ), you
*could* always have a client directory containing shortcuts
to that client's information in the annual directories you
maintain. So when I create a 2003 directory for "Wing,
Michael" I would also create a shortcut to that directory
and put it in my "general" Michael Wing client folder.

That way, when I'm working on your 2003 return, I could
quickly reference to your 2002 information and prior years.

To replicate your full system, you could file open years by
client and then when you went to archive them, you could do
that by years using the search option noted in another
reply. Once the search is complete, that group can be
copied anywhere you like, as well as deleted as a group.

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

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D.F. wrote:

- quote -

And what I consider an important point--when actually
*using* the system I more likely to want to look at a single
client's information across multiple years (so that movement
should be easy) rather than multiple client's information
for a single year.

With paper files, I suspect most offices are organized by
client primarily rather than by years--so all *years* for
John Doe are found as a group rather than all 2003 work (so
that to get John's 2002 return I'd have to go to another
file drawer or shelf).

The primary reason I would want to access by years is either
to archive that year *OR*, after confirming it was archived
<grin> , to delete the date. As you note, that *can* be
accomplished and it's going to be a lot easier to be
consistent when naming years than when naming client
folders.

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

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