- quote -

examination to get a small heads up on whether there is any
reason - repeat - any reason for me (or someone like me) to
be involved. 9 times out of 10 (or more) there isn't, at
least not at exam level. Some clients feel better with the
lawyer with them at appeals - some CPA's do also, for that
matter. I think I would, just because the risk of
litigation is increased.

One other issue on this topic (way off thread now I realize
(grin)) - There is a certain amount of "building the record"
that has to get done so that if a case has any litigation
potential *at all* then you are best prepared for the
controversy ahead (be it litigated or settled). How do you
know when its likely to go up unagreed? Practically
speaking...when it happens, probably not before. Thus,
hindsight comes into play. It's always a
facts/circumstances question on whether the tax lawyer's
needed. For example, am handling an estate tax valuation
case now re: an FLP that the CPA gave up some free
(privileged) information to the estate tax examiner when he
didn't realize what he was giving up -- wish he hadn't done
that. He didn't realize it at the time. I'm not sure I
would have, either, in my pre-skakeskin (i.e., lawyer) days.
Just like sometimes I don't realize the severety of things
because I don't know what I don't know (which is so very
often the older I get (grin)).

What did Rommel say? Strategies win battles, tactics win
wars? I think its best to work (as much as is possible) as
a Team. Communicate. Find a/some tax lawyers/CPA's (please
don't think I'm trying to leave EA's out whenever I say CPA
- tax professional is better) that you can bounce something
off of, see if it needs attention. That's my 2 cents worth
- take it for what its worth. Knock on wood - its working
for me and for my clients and the CPA's seem to like the
arrangement for it helps them evaluate cases without knowing
I'm (or someone like me) is trying to take away their work.

Thus...I'd still tell the poster to start with a good
CPA/Enrolled Agent (EA), let them help you find a tax lawyer
if you need one. Find the tax professional you trust who
has experience in this area and rely upon them to help
quarterback you to the lawyer if you need that. You may
not.

Jason Richardson
Attorney, CPA
Sherman, TX
I am not your lawyer, nor your accountant, etc....

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"Timothy E. Kelly, Esq." <tim[at]timkelly.com> wrote:
- quote -

I agree that, under certain circumstances, an attorney might
be the better choice. In fact, I made that point in my
original reply.

However, in over 25 years of practice, during which time, a
significant part of my practice involved representing
clients before the IRS, I never became personally involved
in such a situation. I spent many hours in the IRS offices
and was personally acquainted with most of the staff in
Honolulu and I can only recall one time when I saw an
attorney there in connection with an audit.

So, I stand by my recommendation that the taxpayer use an
accountant unless some special issues are involved. Nothing
in the original post indicates that such special issues are
involved.

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"L K Williams" <lanny[at]loxinfo.co.th> wrote:
- quote -

I respectfully disagree the use of an attorney should be
discounted, in particular if a case is very complex. Other
than the obvious criminal or fraud case, if the issues
overlap with other areas of law or if the amount in
controversy is substantial, I believe an attorney may be the
best choice from the start.

In case after case brought to me for litigation, the CPA or
EA involved has not created a paper trail necessary to
trigger one of the most powerful tools in the tax lawyer's
toolbox, section 7491(a), the burden of proof shift. Because
the initial burden is on the petitioner to prove "the
taxpayer has maintained all records required under this
title and has cooperated with reasonable requests by the
Secretary for witnesses, information, documents, meetings,
and interviews," in the absence of written confirmation to
this effect from the Service at each major step in the
adminiistrative process, District Counsel may assert even a
small failure at some stage to produce a single document
will doom the effort to invoke 7491(a). If you doubt the
significance of this statute, do a search for "7491" on the
tax court website.

Litigating with the burden of proof on the Service is
dramatically different than not having it, especially in
encouraging settlement, either as a docketed appeals case or
with district counsel themselves.

Another situation is when areas of law overlap. For example,
the state of the law in California is that contingent
attorney fees must be included in gross income where damage
awards and settlements are concerned, invariably triggering
the AMT. But as an attorney, I am able to apply a recent
California Supreme Court decision, not related to taxation,
which states the attorney fees in some types of actions
belong to the attorneys, not the client, similar to the
Sixth Circuit's position, and exclude the attorney fees with
a clear conscience.

So in some very limited instances, I would definitely
recommend a tax lawyer.

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Harlan Lunsford wrote:
- quote -

But if there is a significant potential criminal issue
a Tax Attorney would preferable.

--
Frederick E. Jorden http://Tax-Accounting-Payroll.com
7825 Midlothian Tpk - 207 Richmond, VA 23235-5247 EMAIL knowtax[at]bigfoot.com
(804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211

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Amanda Cohen wrote:

- quote -

If you're looking for someone to represent in an audit,
don't pick an attorney. Get either an Enrolled Agent (EA)
or a CPA. Both can probably be found in the Yellow Pages
(tm). An EA referral may be obtained at www.NAEA.org.

I should note here that EA's as a rule charge less than
CPA's. Whichever you choose however, be sure he has audit
experience.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA in LA

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"Amanda Cohen" <amandacohen111[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

If your friend is going to a routing IRS audit, she might be
better represented by a CPA or EA with experience dealing
with IRS examiners. In most audits, the issues raised are
more likely to be matters of accounting, not law. CPAs and
EAs are usually more experienced in this area, most tax
attorneys do not become involved at this point.

However, if this is not a regular examination but involves
IRS special agents and potential criminal charges are
present, she needs an attorney, not a CPA or EA. But,
unless she has a potential fraud in the return(s) being
examined, she should save her money and use an accounting
professional.

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amandacohen111[at]yahoo.com (Amanda Cohen) blurted out

- quote -

Frankly I'd advise a CPA to represent her at the audit
level. Accountants do this a whole lot more than attorneys,
in general, and will likely be the better choice.

If it gets to tax court, that's when you'll want to have an attorney.

Stu

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A friend of mine who lives in the San Jose area, Bay Area,
CA needs a really good tax attorney (with a lot of tax audit
experience) who can represent her in an audit.

If anyone has any recommendations...

Pls. respond here or privately at
amandacohen111[at]yahoo.com

Thanks
A. Cohen

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