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  #9  
Old 08-25-2003, 11:51 AM
D. Stussy
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: misreported 1099-MISC

Frederick Jorden wrote:
- quote -

> D. Stussy wrote:
> > Frederick Jorden wrote:
> > > Arthur L. Rubin wrote:
> > > > Frederick Jorden wrote:


> > > > > My past experience with similar, and sometimes worse
> > > > > situations, leads me to conclude that it is very difficult
> > > > > to get the IRS to go after issuers of bogus 1099s. If I
> > > > > were the recipient of a similar 1099 I would return the
> > > > > favor and take a deduction for the 1099 I issued.


> > > > Wouldn't that be fraud?
> > > > > > > Just because fraud was committed against you doesn't give
> > > > you the right to return the favor.


> > > Well if the first one is fraud and you fully disclose on the
> > > return 1099 the reason for issuing it then you get into the
> > > issue of intent which is required for fraud. Since in my
> > > experience the IRS has NEVER responded to real instances of
> > > fraud on the part of 1099 issuers this resins is IMHNAO
> > > legal. Just go for a jury trial! Secondly if all the details
> > > are disclosed on the say 1040 and 1099 how can that be
> > > fraud. One thing nice about the new 1099 form is there is
> > > plenty of space to hand write in such notation..


> > Note that the Tax Court does not have jury trials. In order
> > to get one, one would have to pay the deficiency, file for a
> > refund, then take that denied claim to District Court.
> > > That kind of defeats the purpose of protesting it now, doesn't it?


> I know that, the threat of the District Court could have
> some negotiating value. We are talking about a situation
> where the original 1099 was fraudulent. Secondly, the
> threat of discovery and mucking about in the bad guy's
> corporate records for a District Court case was good enough
> to get the bad to file a corrected 1099. It would never
> get that far there are still some reasonable folks employed
> be the service who could see what happened.
> On the other hand there are some legal action groups who may
> be interested.


OK, but that wouldn't be with the U.S (i.e. IRS) as the
respondent, but as the 1099 issuer as respondent, correct?
Otherwise, the threat has no meaning because 28 USC
1341(a)(1) only provides for the limited jurisdiction of
claims of income tax previously FULLY paid.

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  #8  
Old 08-22-2003, 01:09 AM
Gene E. Utterback, EA
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: misreported 1099-MISC

"D. Stussy" <kd6lvw[at]bde-arc.ampr.org> wrote:
- quote -

> Frederick Jorden wrote:
> > Arthur L. Rubin wrote:
> > > Frederick Jorden wrote:


> > > > My past experience with similar, and sometimes worse
> > > > situations, leads me to conclude that it is very difficult
> > > > to get the IRS to go after issuers of bogus 1099s. If I
> > > > were the recipient of a similar 1099 I would return the
> > > > favor and take a deduction for the 1099 I issued.


> > > Wouldn't that be fraud?
> > > > > Just because fraud was committed against you doesn't give
> > > you the right to return the favor.


> > Well if the first one is fraud and you fully disclose on the
> > return 1099 the reason for issuing it then you get into the
> > issue of intent which is required for fraud. Since in my
> > experience the IRS has NEVER responded to real instances of
> > fraud on the part of 1099 issuers this resins is IMHNAO
> > legal. Just go for a jury trial! Secondly if all the details
> > are disclosed on the say 1040 and 1099 how can that be
> > fraud. One thing nice about the new 1099 form is there is
> > plenty of space to hand write in such notation..


> Note that the Tax Court does not have jury trials. In order
> to get one, one would have to pay the deficiency, file for a
> refund, then take that denied claim to District Court.
> That kind of defeats the purpose of protesting it now, doesn't it?


Not necessarily. One of the benefits of a jury trial is
that you get nontax professionals to render a decision
instead of someone who (supposedly) understands the tax law.
There may be certain circumstances where a client with the
resources would fare much better if he paid the tax and
filed suit in district court. Often, juries will rule on
what they FEEL is the correct solution without paying too
much attention to the law. Of course, the IRS can always
appeal.

Gene E. Utterback, EA

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  #7  
Old 08-20-2003, 10:41 PM
Arthur L. Rubin
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: misreported 1099-MISC

Frederick Jorden wrote:
- quote -

> Arthur L. Rubin wrote:
> > Frederick Jorden wrote:


> > > My past experience with similar, and sometimes worse
> > > situations, leads me to conclude that it is very difficult
> > > to get the IRS to go after issuers of bogus 1099s. If I
> > > were the recipient of a similar 1099 I would return the
> > > favor and take a deduction for the 1099 I issued.


> > Wouldn't that be fraud?
> > > Just because fraud was committed against you doesn't give

> > you the right to return the favor.


> Well if the first one is fraud and you fully disclose on the
> return 1099 the reason for issuing it then you get into the
> issue of intent which is required for fraud. Since in my
> experience the IRS has NEVER responded to real instances of
> fraud on the part of 1099 issuers this resins is IMHNAO
> legal. Just go for a jury trial! Secondly if all the details
> are disclosed on the say 1040 and 1099 how can that be
> fraud. One thing nice about the new 1099 form is there is
> plenty of space to hand write in such notation..


I haven't looked at the new 1099-MISC form.

Obviously, I have no objection to deducting or not reporting
(the latter being "correct" according to the instructions)
amounts incorrectly reported to you on 1099s, but issuing
a phony 1099 in return seems wrong.

Besides, wouldn't it be late, subjecting you (in theory) to
the $50 late filing penalty?

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->
  #6  
Old 08-20-2003, 10:40 PM
D. Stussy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: misreported 1099-MISC

Frederick Jorden wrote:
- quote -

> Arthur L. Rubin wrote:
> > Frederick Jorden wrote:


> > > My past experience with similar, and sometimes worse
> > > situations, leads me to conclude that it is very difficult
> > > to get the IRS to go after issuers of bogus 1099s. If I
> > > were the recipient of a similar 1099 I would return the
> > > favor and take a deduction for the 1099 I issued.


> > Wouldn't that be fraud?
> > > Just because fraud was committed against you doesn't give

> > you the right to return the favor.


> Well if the first one is fraud and you fully disclose on the
> return 1099 the reason for issuing it then you get into the
> issue of intent which is required for fraud. Since in my
> experience the IRS has NEVER responded to real instances of
> fraud on the part of 1099 issuers this resins is IMHNAO
> legal. Just go for a jury trial! Secondly if all the details
> are disclosed on the say 1040 and 1099 how can that be
> fraud. One thing nice about the new 1099 form is there is
> plenty of space to hand write in such notation..


Note that the Tax Court does not have jury trials. In order
to get one, one would have to pay the deficiency, file for a
refund, then take that denied claim to District Court.

That kind of defeats the purpose of protesting it now, doesn't it?

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->
  #5  
Old 08-20-2003, 10:02 PM
Frederick Jorden
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: misreported 1099-MISC

Harlan Lunsford wrote:
- quote -

> Arthur L. Rubin wrote:
> > Frederick Jorden wrote:


> > > My past experience with similar, and sometimes worse
> > > situations, leads me to conclude that it is very difficult
> > > to get the IRS to go after issuers of bogus 1099s. If I
> > > were the recipient of a similar 1099 I would return the
> > > favor and take a deduction for the 1099 I issued.


> > Wouldn't that be fraud?
> > > Just because fraud was committed against you doesn't give

> > you the right to return the favor.


> Taking a deduction for incorrectly reported income on a 1099
> is not fraud. In fact I've heard IRS people themselves say
> that's the easiest way to take care of the situation.
> Of course one should at the same time complain to IRS,
> stating f&c.


Since they generally never respond to such complaints, why
not just put it on the tax return.

--
Frederick E. Jorden http://Tax-Accounting-Payroll.com
7825 Midlothian Tpk - 207 Richmond, VA 23235-5247 EMAIL knowtax[at]bigfoot.com
(804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->
  #4  
Old 08-20-2003, 04:27 AM
Harlan Lunsford
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: misreported 1099-MISC

Arthur L. Rubin wrote:
- quote -

> Frederick Jorden wrote:

> > My past experience with similar, and sometimes worse
> > situations, leads me to conclude that it is very difficult
> > to get the IRS to go after issuers of bogus 1099s. If I
> > were the recipient of a similar 1099 I would return the
> > favor and take a deduction for the 1099 I issued.


> Wouldn't that be fraud?
> Just because fraud was committed against you doesn't give
> you the right to return the favor.


Taking a deduction for incorrectly reported income on a 1099
is not fraud. In fact I've heard IRS people themselves say
that's the easiest way to take care of the situation.

Of course one should at the same time complain to IRS,
stating f&c.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA in LA, going to KC

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->
  #3  
Old 08-20-2003, 03:30 AM
Frederick Jorden
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: misreported 1099-MISC

Arthur L. Rubin wrote:
- quote -

> Frederick Jorden wrote:

> > My past experience with similar, and sometimes worse
> > situations, leads me to conclude that it is very difficult
> > to get the IRS to go after issuers of bogus 1099s. If I
> > were the recipient of a similar 1099 I would return the
> > favor and take a deduction for the 1099 I issued.


> Wouldn't that be fraud?
> Just because fraud was committed against you doesn't give
> you the right to return the favor.


Well if the first one is fraud and you fully disclose on the
return 1099 the reason for issuing it then you get into the
issue of intent which is required for fraud. Since in my
experience the IRS has NEVER responded to real instances of
fraud on the part of 1099 issuers this resins is IMHNAO
legal. Just go for a jury trial! Secondly if all the details
are disclosed on the say 1040 and 1099 how can that be
fraud. One thing nice about the new 1099 form is there is
plenty of space to hand write in such notation..

--
Frederick E. Jorden http://Tax-Accounting-Payroll.com
7825 Midlothian Tpk - 207 Richmond, VA 23235-5247 EMAIL knowtax[at]bigfoot.com
(804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->
  #2  
Old 08-17-2003, 03:20 AM
Frederick Jorden
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: misreported 1099-MISC

P. North wrote:

- quote -

> I received a letter today from the IRS stating that I did
> not report almost $30,000 of income on Schedule C. Their
> records that were sent to me indicated that a 1099-MISC was
> issued to me by some "foundation" that I received payment of
> almost $30K. I did not receive any money from that
> employer. I have never had any contact with them. I have
> never even heard of them.
> A casual search yielded nothing on this mystery
> "foundation." However, a c/o name under the "foundation"
> turned up on the IRS site. The person that issued a bogus
> 1099-MISC works for the IRS as an agent!
> What do I do? What rights do I have? I think something
> criminal went down here, but since the offender may work for
> the IRS, this may not be as simple as reporting it to
> appropriate authorities and asking the parties at fault to
> correct their flagrant mistake/fraud/forgery. BTW, who
> should I contact besides my own lawyer about this?


My past experience with similar, and sometimes worse
situations, leads me to conclude that it is very difficult
to get the IRS to go after issuers of bogus 1099s. If I
were the recipient of a similar 1099 I would return the
favor and take a deduction for the 1099 I issued.

--
Frederick E. Jorden http://Tax-Accounting-Payroll.com
7825 Midlothian Tpk - 207 Richmond, VA 23235-5247 EMAIL knowtax[at]bigfoot.com
(804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->
  #1  
Old 08-16-2003, 01:49 AM
Harlan Lunsford
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: misreported 1099-MISC

P. North wrote:

- quote -

> I received a letter today from the IRS stating that I did
> not report almost $30,000 of income on Schedule C. Their
> records that were sent to me indicated that a 1099-MISC was
> issued to me by some "foundation" that I received payment of
> almost $30K. I did not receive any money from that
> employer. I have never had any contact with them. I have
> never even heard of them.
> A casual search yielded nothing on this mystery
> "foundation." However, a c/o name under the "foundation"
> turned up on the IRS site. The person that issued a bogus
> 1099-MISC works for the IRS as an agent!
> What do I do? What rights do I have? I think something
> criminal went down here, but since the offender may work for
> the IRS, this may not be as simple as reporting it to
> appropriate authorities and asking the parties at fault to
> correct their flagrant mistake/fraud/forgery. BTW, who
> should I contact besides my own lawyer about this?


I got as far as your second paragraph there, but came to a
complete stop when I read" the person that issued .... works
for the IRS as an agent!"

How on earth do you know this?

IMWTK.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA in LA

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Old 08-16-2003, 01:49 AM
D. Stussy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: misreported 1099-MISC

P. North wrote:

- quote -

> I received a letter today from the IRS stating that I did
> not report almost $30,000 of income on Schedule C. Their
> records that were sent to me indicated that a 1099-MISC was
> issued to me by some "foundation" that I received payment of
> almost $30K. I did not receive any money from that
> employer. I have never had any contact with them. I have
> never even heard of them.


Tell the IRS that. Should they wish to pursue it, they will
have the burden of proof to show that you actually received
payment. If this is a "bogus" report, then the IRS will
soon discover that there was no underlying transaction.

TIGTA.

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  #-1  
Old 08-15-2003, 01:24 AM
P. North
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default misreported 1099-MISC

I received a letter today from the IRS stating that I did
not report almost $30,000 of income on Schedule C. Their
records that were sent to me indicated that a 1099-MISC was
issued to me by some "foundation" that I received payment of
almost $30K. I did not receive any money from that
employer. I have never had any contact with them. I have
never even heard of them.

A casual search yielded nothing on this mystery
"foundation." However, a c/o name under the "foundation"
turned up on the IRS site. The person that issued a bogus
1099-MISC works for the IRS as an agent!

What do I do? What rights do I have? I think something
criminal went down here, but since the offender may work for
the IRS, this may not be as simple as reporting it to
appropriate authorities and asking the parties at fault to
correct their flagrant mistake/fraud/forgery. BTW, who
should I contact besides my own lawyer about this?

Thanks.

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->
 

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