(someone else first asked me:

- quote -

and then
- quote -

And one further thought here on entering someone's self
prepared return. One of those early years doing this, I
noticed on one joint return the most social security
reported that I had ever seen. I just knew it must be an
error; something like. (guessing now, not remembering
exactly) $ 37,000.

Shouldn't be a problem of course, all I'm doing is e filing
a return as his agent, and earning my 25$. Right?

But I just HAD to ask. He told me is was social security
for his wife (previously deceased husband) and their three
kids.

No need to go into details of what I told him, so he took
the return home, redid it, transformed a balance due to a
really NICE refund. Later that week he stopped by with a
bottle of Chivas Regal, too.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA in LA

================================================== ==========
Moderator:
Harlan, Next time someone gives you a liter or more of
Chevis, come directly to my house with the Chevis, and
call me when you leave so I can put some Drambuie on ice.
================================================== ===========

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

UltraTax does.

- quote -

I don't really care what prints on the 1040, but am
concerned about what prints on the 8453.

On the 8453 I "uncheck" the box that says ERO is also the
preparer. On all other returns that box is checked by
default.

If a different paid preparer was involved that information
would go on the 8453 and I don't think it matters what would
print on the 1040.

__
Art Kamlet ArtKamlet [at] AOL.com Columbus OH K2PZH

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

Yes, input is required, but whenyou're a fast typist, it's a
breeze. Even if my computer can't spel at times!

My software, Taxwise 1040, has a feature that brings forward
essential elements of a client's previous year's return,
viz. W-2 and 1099r information, and of course basic taxpayer
information. It does NOT however bring forward last year's
bank rtn and account number. Anyway, each succeeding year is
a breeze, having only to input the numbers on a previous
year's W-2 format ; cut here, snip there. Inputting new
figures on a shedule A takes maybe..... 20 seconds, tops.

These self prepared returns are kept in a separate sub
directory, therefore other defaults like my signature block
don't get put on page 2.

I am also ERO for another tax preparer who sends me her
efiling clients every year. Same drill here, their returns
are in separate sub directory such that her preparer
information automatically gets added to the return.

However those self prepared returns are slowly eroding in
numbers as more people find out how to file online.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA in LA

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

It depends on your keypunching speed for one and you just
are putting in numbers, not worrying about the return. Some
software (Drake for one) has a data entry screen just for
self prepared returns.

Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents
1040EZ and 1040A tax prep at www.1040.com/1040pro

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

<GGG> And he would know!
Carol

If you awoke to find yourself a success, you weren't asleep.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

Harlan, tell me how that works. I've never e-filed a
self-prepared return. I could be wrong but I think I would
have to input the entire return using my software before I
could e-file it. If that's the case, I might as well do the
return myself. Wouldn't save me much time. Am I missing
something?

Will

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

LOL! That made my night Art, as you are SO correct.

Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents
1040EZ and 1040A tax prep at www.1040.com/1040pro

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

Now you remind me of a fellow who started bringing me his
(completed) 1040 to file way back when (1989) when I started
efiling. All those years (till this last year btw) he
would do his tax return and bring it to me, so I made 20-25$
per year off of him. Not bad for about 5 minutes work a
year. Some time maybe five years ago I asked him why he
just didn't mail it in? And he, a clerk at the big post
office over in Columbus, muttered something about the
unreliability of the U S mail.

Cheer$,
HL

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

Helen P. OPlanick EA <heljangal[at]aol.comnojunk> wrote:

- quote -

They wouldn't dare!!!

__
Art Kamlet ArtKamlet [at] AOL.com Columbus OH K2PZH

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

You might try my "official" job title:
president of general flunkiness.

Carol

If you awoke to find yourself a success, you weren't asleep.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

Harlan Lunsford wrote:
- quote -

I thought about amending my corporation bylaws to replace
the title of president with Boss.

--
Frederick E. Jorden http://Tax-Accounting-Payroll.com
7825 Midlothian Tpk - 207 Richmond, VA 23235-5247 EMAIL knowtax[at]bigfoot.com
(804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

The why did the set the deadline so tight! I learned when I
designed corporate reporting forms you never set a deadline
you do not intend to enforce! People will start to think all
of your rules mean nothing. But the folks in the IRS live in
another world.

--
Frederick E. Jorden http://Tax-Accounting-Payroll.com
7825 Midlothian Tpk - 207 Richmond, VA 23235-5247 EMAIL knowtax[at]bigfoot.com
(804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

A couple of years ago we had a new client come in. They
brought the usual stuff -W2s, 1098s, etc. We asked about
the wife's W2. The husband said that it got lost in the
mail (they did move). Imagine our surprise when she brought
in her last paystub and found out she works for the POST
OFFICE!

Carol

If you awoke to find yourself a success, you weren't asleep.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

Harlan Lunsford wrote:
- quote -

As a ME user who did not change because of the need to shell
to some old dos applications, I am very glad I did not
upgrade to XP. The other thing is that you have to have a
good ant virus software that you keep updated constantly and
go the the Microsoft update sites religiously.

--
Frederick E. Jorden http://Tax-Accounting-Payroll.com
7825 Midlothian Tpk - 207 Richmond, VA 23235-5247 EMAIL knowtax[at]bigfoot.com
(804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

Helen P. OPlanick EA wrote:

- quote -

The problem is that the IRS has the *opportunity* to use
that in the future if they wish. And if you don't think the
IRS has been known to split hairs, just look at some of the
case law in the various circuits on the "timely mailing is
timely filing" rule where they've argued that anything other
than strict compliance with §7502(c) means a taxpayer cannot
prove the return was filed if the IRS claims it wasn't
(though the Ninth Circuit doesn't buy that, other circuits do).

I raise that because, just recently on the California CPA
mailing list, a practitioner commented about just that sort
of "unofficial" suggestion on mailing extensions where an
IRS source indicated that using certified mail "just slowed
things down"--though the CPA in question did note that the
fact it might be inconvenient didn't really matter, despite
IRS assurances there would "be no problem" she didn't
believe them.

AOD 1991-024 suggests she's correct in that belief:

---begin quoted text

The estate's personal representative brought the estate tax
return to the Easton Post Office on Friday, March 19, 1982.
It was established that the envelope containing the return
was properly addressed to the Service and contained the
proper postage. The postmistress of the Easton Post Office
testified that she personally postmarked the envelope
containing the petitioner's return “March 19, 1982.” The
Service never received the return. The Tax Court and the
Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals held that the petitioner
timely filed its return on March 19, 1982, pursuant to
I.R.C. section 7502 and therefore timely elected special use
valuation.

In I.R.C. section 7502, Congress provided two rules with
respect to the mailing and delivery of documents to the
Service. The first rule provides that an envelope bearing a
timely postmark will be deemed timely filed as of the
postmark date if properly stamped, addressed and delivered
by the United States mail after the due date. The second
rule provides that registered and certified mail is prima
facie evidence that the document was delivered. I.R.C.
section 7502(c).

In Estate of Wood, the Tax Court held that a taxpayer may
rely on the common law mailbox presumption to prove
delivery. Under the mailbox presumption, a properly
addressed and stamped envelope that is deposited in the U.S.
mail is presumed delivered to the person to whom it is
addressed.

The Eighth Circuit agreed with the majority holding of the
Tax Court that for I.R.C. section 7502 to completely
displace the common law presumption of delivery, there must
be some statutory or legislative indication that Congress so
intended. No such indication was found to exist in the
legislative history. Furthermore, no indication was found
that registration or certification, as provided in I.R.C.
section 7502(c), was to be the exclusive instance in which a
presumption of delivery could apply. The court stated that
Congress did not intend “to foreclose application of the
[mailbox presumption] in those cases in which the postmark
requirements of [I.R.C. section 7502(c)(1)] can be
exclusively established.” The court noted the narrowness of
its holding by stating that the taxpayer must offer direct
proof of postmark in order to obtain the benefit of I.R.C.
section 7502.

The Service disagrees with the Eighth Circuit's holding.
First of all, the court's decision fails to acknowledge that
I.R.C. section 7502 and its regulations require actual,
physical delivery. Secondly, the court's reading of I.R.C.
section 7502(a)(1) renders I.R.C. section 7502(c) redundant.
By permitting the taxpayer, in this case, to create a
presumption of delivery by presenting evidence of a
postmark, the Eighth Circuit's interpretation strips I.R.C.
section 7502(c) of its purpose. There would have been little
need for Congress to provide for the certified or registered
mail provisions of I.R.C. section 7502(c) if a taxpayer
could establish a presumption of delivery by introducing
evidence of a single postmark.

Following the enactment of I.R.C. section 7502, the courts
consistently looked to I.R.C. section 7502(c) as providing
the exclusive circumstances in which a return would be
presumed to be delivered. The Eighth Circuit's opinion in
this case is in direct conflict with the opinions of the
Second Circuit, the Sixth Circuit, and the United States
Claims Court. See, e.g., Deutsch v. Commissioner, 599 F.2d
46 (2d Cir. 1979); Miller v. United States, 784 F.2d 728
(6th Cir. 1986); Surowka v. United States, 909 F.2d 148 (6th
Cir. 1990); and H.S. & H. Ltd. v. United States, 18 Cl. Ct.
241, 246 (1989).

Although a direct conflict between the circuits was
presented, the Solicitor General declined to authorize
certiorari in light of the stated limitations of the
holdings and the absence of affirmative evidence of
nonreceipt by the Service. The Service will not follow the
decision outside the venue of the Eighth Circuit.

---end quoted text

If it truly is "no problem" to mail it late, the the IRS
should change the regulation.

The problem is simple--if the IRS should ever assert it *is*
a problem for you to have filed these late, you really have
no defense since you clearly acted contrary to a published
regulation. And the Wood case indicates the IRS *will* not
necessarily cut slack on such issues (they certainly didn't
cut the Wood estate any slack desipte rather strong evidence
that the return was filed).

The difference in this case is that, in filing these
documents "late" you are directly going against the literal
rule in the regulation.

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
- quote -

And I'm just waiting for the day IRS sends back a check
since it's not made out to " U S Treasury".

On another note though, I sign each quarterly 941 form with
a different title; president, sec, treas, grand dragon,
general mangler, whatever I think of at the time. Still
haven't used "chief cook and bottle washer" ; yet.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA in LA

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

No, they will not write it down, but think of it this way,
they get 1000s of envelopes each day, they are not going to
get them all opened each day and posted..... they don't care
if a day late here or there happens I'm sure.

Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents
1040EZ and 1040A tax prep at www.1040.com/1040pro

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

Frederick Jorden wrote:
- quote -

I consider myself lucky that one of my clients is my letter
carrier! And even though I moved my office more than six
months ago, the local post office still delivers the
sometimes previously addressed mail, reminding me that I
forgot about notifying some correspondents about the change.

And that reminds me, how many of us (y'all) actually use
that IRS form to give to clients who change address during
the year? (form... 8822??)

Here's hoping y'all didn't get "blasted" yesterday by the
worm. I did. But thankfully it doesn't affect Win98 on this
home computer.

Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsfod, EA in LA

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

Oh man!! They moved to Alabama. <G
We get people like that ALL the time.

Carol

If you awoke to find yourself a success, you weren't asleep.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->

- quote -

We will know our post office has improved service when they
get the mail delivered to the right person, on the right
street, in the right town.

Funny story about misdelivered mail. For a couple of years
we have gotten mail addressed to people whose house number
is the same as ours, but whose street is different. We
would just stick the mail back in the box. A few months ago
we started going to a new church. Who do we meet but the
people whose mail we had been getting for a couple of
years!! For the time we went to that church, if we got each
others mail (and we did) we just brought it to church for
them.

Carol

If you awoke to find yourself a success, you weren't asleep.
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)

<< -------------------------------------------------> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting > << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org > << ------------------------------------------------->