Humm, I'll have you know that I'm the best obscure problem hip shooter
in the business.

We still have not ruled out a possible hardware bug so the question is
are the machines you tried identical or nearly so?

arthur
-----
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:57:31 -0500, "David S. Mohler" wrote:
- quote -

Interesting. I'm curious: what operating systems have these machines you've
tried this on been running?

"David S. Mohler" <dmohler[at]clearlogic.net> wrote in message
news:%23cZM7dAUEHA.1652[at]TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
- quote -

Thanks, Doug. I appreciate your reply.

In spite of the verbose arm-chair troubleshooting in this thread that I
started, this is absolutely a Money problem. The Money file itself causes
any machine (that it is copied to) to shut down. Something is corrupted in
the file and Money is choking on it.

David

For what it's worth, I had a problem with M2003 that sounds similar.
Whenever I tried to view my portfolio in performance view, Money would
instantly shut down or my computer would instantly restart, without warning.
I spent a lot of time trying to troubleshoot (reinstalling M2003, searching
for corrupt transactions, running salvage, etc.). I was only able to solve
the problem by upgrading to M2004.

doug

"David S. Mohler" <dmohler[at]clearlogic.net> wrote in message
news:OMW8mq3SEHA.3768[at]TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
- quote -

I had an Epox 4DX450 system that started intermittent failure when it
was 3+ yrs old running Eudora but nothing else failed. The system
finally died and I replaced the MB and no more Eudora crashes. So,
yes it can be either software or hardware. To illustrate:

1. The hardware could be misinterpreting a software instruction that
is rarely used by programs or perhaps a particular sequence of
instructions causes the hardware error / failure.
2. The software could have a coding error in a relatively little used
section of code that ended up being a power off instruction. Or maybe
the program is taking a wild branch into some data area that just
happens to be power off.

Sandra is an interesting hardware test suite. A free version can be
found at
http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/ which will do some of the more basic
testing. Might be worth playing with if time permits.

arthur
--
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:32:56 -0600, "Dick Watson" wrote:
- quote -

What we didn't get is details on "shutdown". I'm assuming that it does just
that, no warning, no nothing. I have seen some CPU fans that were dying or
just ineffective and the machine would still run in many circumstances.
Likewise, there are lots of problems like the thermal bond from the CPU to
the heatsink just isn't good. It'll be good enough under low stress
conditions, but some application or other creates the high stress conditions
that cause problems.

I guess the consensus of many of these posts is that hardware problems just
cannot be discounted. I agree that opening a support case with Microsoft
from the knowledge presented here is just a way to waste time.

"Arthur" <no.body.lives.here[at]xoxy.net> wrote in message
news:1047c0tluuarmvmkl9oo235tb887bu5rnn[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

The backup file name is changeable by you. The name you list is the
default one. I change mine on a monthly basis so that I have older
copies. This in particular on the removable media (which I use an USB
Thinb Drive).

Arthur wrote:
- quote -

Good ideas but please make a sandbox copy of the .mny file(s) to use
for experimenting. First try the sample.mny file to see if that does
the same thing. Don't change it unless you make a play copy as it is
a good show and tell tool. Backup files are .mbf and the default
sample.mny gets named My Money Backup.mbf -- why I don't know.

Dick, some systemboards will play a classical tune if they overheat,
honest. Some will shutdown if overheat as you say. The cpu will
destruct in milliseconds of its cooling fan failing so I guess you
mean the case fan(s) to keep the systemboard from running to warm and
thus shorten the life of components. These fans usually outlast the
computer.

As we know, the computer can be shutdown via software and this is the
more likely cause or a combination of a hardware and software bug. I
had a Compac (sp?) at work that randomly shut itself off about once or
twice a week. Other identical machines didn't have the problem.

I would not waste time reporting to MS until I had more evidence it is
a money problem so their support doesn't blow me away easily.

arthur
--
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 14:37:34 -0400, Art McClinton wrote:
- quote -

This is an error that I would report directly to Microsoft. If you wish
to trouble shoot it further I would download or acquire diagnostics for
the machine to allow testing of the hardware. I would also Look into the
Money file by running it on another machine or see if it is possible to
delete accounts one at a time and see if the error remains. Since you
are able to reproduce the problem at will it should be easy to try to
isolate the problem. It is posible that you have a corrupt money file
that has found a bug in prgram. It also is possible that you have a bad
HW item (say a bad memory chip) that is only hit by Money which uses
more memory that almost any other program.


David S. Mohler wrote:

- quote -

I understand your conviction that this is a software problem and can't be a
hardware problem but I'm still skeptical. Particularly when you say "the
computer, if left idle, will not shut down." Have you ever heard of thermal
shutdown? It's something many (most) newer CPUs can do as a self-protection
mechanism when they get too hot. Idle CPUs do not get hot. CPUs running at
100% workload do get hot. You idle case is the former, Money, quite
frequently, is the latter. (And this is also different between Money running
on a new data file with no data and a data file with lots of data.) I'd
investigate cooling problems like a dying or disconnected fan. Do you
overclock? Are there dust bunnies in the air path? Is your computer a white
box or DIY machine? Can you try this on another machine? Do you have a
software tool to read the CPU temp (some CPUs support this, others do not)?

"David S. Mohler" <dmohler[at]clearlogic.net> wrote in message
news:OMW8mq3SEHA.3768[at]TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
....
- quote -

Hello,

I have a Windows XP computer running IE 6.0.2800.1106.xpsp2.030422.1633 and
Money 2004.

The computer shuts down -- just turns off without warning -- during the use
of Microsoft Money 2004. The shut down *seems* to occur during user input
(i.e., moving the mouse or typing a transaction.)

I have not changed anything on the system: it's the same mouse, mouse
driver, etc. The only thing I *think* has changed is IE during a Windows
Update because I do not recall seeing the "xpsp2" in the version information
as noted above. I have *not* applied the XP SP2 beta to this computer.

This is not a hardware problem. The computer, if left idle, will not shut
down. No other application causes this problem. But if Money is started, it
is only a matter of time that the system just turns off. The problem is
reproducible: the same activity always shuts it down at some point during or
after Money has been run. (It is possible to exit Money and then experience
the shutdown after Money has exited. However, if Money is never run, the
computer will never shut down.) I have been using this version of Money for
many months. I tried a Level 2 file repair, but no errors were found and the
repaired file caused the same problem.

I created a new Money file and the problem does not occur. I opened the
repaired file and within seconds of entering a new transaction, the computer
turned off.

Clearly, this problem is associated with my Money file. How can a Money file
cause the computer to turn off? Is there a more exhaustive test & repair
utility?

There are no errors in the event log, no devices reporting trouble.

Power settings have all been disabled; cards removed, etc. Makes no
difference. There is a software anomaly that has suddenly occurred.

Thanks,
David