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#7
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| To me there is a flaw in Microsoft Money’s evaluation of portfolio performance that can seriously mislead an unsavvy investor. The problem shows up in the calculation of “Total Return” (TR 4-Week, TR YTD, etc…). The problem shows up in the % shown on the Portfolio Manager. It shows up erroneously in “Portfolio Review” when comparing performance vs. S&P500 or other benchmarks. It also shows up in the % Rate of Return calculation in the Reports section for Investment performance. I’ll use an example. I have an old rollover IRA that began 2008 with ~$60,000 in assets. No money was transferred in or out of the IRA. As of 11/24/2008 the account had dwindled to ~$30,000. The calculation on this should be relatively straight-forward. I’ve lost 50%. However, Money shows a lost off 25%. How is this happening? It took me a bit to figure out what Money is doing, but here goes… Money is calculating this based on the following formula: % Return = [(SAV+BUYS-SELLS-INC) – EAV] / (SAV + BUYS) To make things correct, I believe the formula SHOULD be: % Return = [{SAV+BUYS-SELLS-INCOME) – EAV] / (SAV+BUYS-SELLS-INC) SAV = Starting Account Value BUYS = Sum of all purchases made within the account during the time period SELLS = Sum of value of all issues sold during the time period INC = Sum of all income generated during period (dividends, etc…) EAV = Ending Account Value Why the problem? It has to do with re-allocating assets in a portfolio. Using my example, let’s say on Jan 2nd I completely reallocated my IRA. I sold $60,000 of assets and bought $60,000 of something else. Assuming 0 income, by their calculation: % Return = [(60,000 + 60,000 – 60,000 – 0) – 30,000 / (60,000 + 60,000) % Return = 25.0% Using my formula, the correct value of 50.0% would have popped up. Again, this is dangerous for an inexperienced investor who is getting a very unrealistic estimate of the performance of his/her portfolio. Any fix in the works? Not that I now of. "Cal Learner-- MVP" wrote: - quote - > In microsoft.public.money, neil154 wrote: > > > I guess I am really curious what the "%Rate of Return" column is trying to > > tell me if the other column is theequivalent to what the bank would calculate > > if it were a savings account. > So have you figured out how to calculate APR for the bank account? > :-) |
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#6
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| In microsoft.public.money, neil154 wrote: - quote - > I guess I am really curious what the "%Rate of Return" column is trying to
So have you figured out how to calculate APR for the bank account?> tell me if the other column is theequivalent to what the bank would calculate > if it were a savings account. :-) |
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#5
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| Yes, I probably am more motivated than you and I have tried several samples to try to figure out what the report is telling me but I am not still at a loss. Using the portfolio information only works for some speicif periods of time. For example if I wanted to know my return for the perion from 7/1/07 to any other time, the protfolio page will not give me the information. I guess I am really curious what the "%Rate of Return" column is trying to tell me if the other column is theequivalent to what the bank would calculate if it were a savings account. "Cal Learner-- MVP" wrote: - quote - > In microsoft.public.money, neil154 wrote: > > I understand what you are telling me but of course I am still somewhat > > confused. I think you are saying that "annual % Return" is the column that > > accurately tells me the real rate of return (or the equivalent to what the > > bank calls Annual Rate of Return. I don't understand the other column. It > > sort of sounds like that is a "simpler" calculation of the same thing and why > > would Money provide me with a simpler and less accurate number if they are > > also supplying me with a more complex more correct number. In my case as I > > mentioned there is such a drastic difference between the 2 numbers (in some > > cases) that I think I am missing some understanding. > In your effort to understand, have you entered some test cases to > improve your understanding? I thought about doing that, but I > realized that you are much more motivated in that area than I. > IRR puts a premium on when money is committed to, or is returned > from, the investment. > I suggest you use the Portfolio TR columns for the most useful gage > of performance. |
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#4
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| In microsoft.public.money, neil154 wrote: - quote - > I understand what you are telling me but of course I am still somewhat > confused. I think you are saying that "annual % Return" is the column that > accurately tells me the real rate of return (or the equivalent to what the > bank calls Annual Rate of Return. I don't understand the other column. It > sort of sounds like that is a "simpler" calculation of the same thing and why > would Money provide me with a simpler and less accurate number if they are > also supplying me with a more complex more correct number. In my case as I > mentioned there is such a drastic difference between the 2 numbers (in some > cases) that I think I am missing some understanding. In your effort to understand, have you entered some test cases to improve your understanding? I thought about doing that, but I realized that you are much more motivated in that area than I. IRR puts a premium on when money is committed to, or is returned from, the investment. I suggest you use the Portfolio TR columns for the most useful gage of performance. |
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#3
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| I understand what you are telling me but of course I am still somewhat confused. I think you are saying that "annual % Return" is the column that accurately tells me the real rate of return (or the equivalent to what the bank calls Annual Rate of Return. I don't understand the other column. It sort of sounds like that is a "simpler" calculation of the same thing and why would Money provide me with a simpler and less accurate number if they are also supplying me with a more complex more correct number. In my case as I mentioned there is such a drastic difference between the 2 numbers (in some cases) that I think I am missing some understanding. "Mark" wrote: - quote - > The "Annual % Return" is the Total Annualized Return using IRR. > The %Rate of Return is using a simpler (basic) return calculation. > The reason the the Indexes would be the same versus your actual investments > is that the IRR is actually using your buys, sells, interest, dividends, etc > as part of the Cash Flow calculations, whereas the indexes simply have > beginnning and ending prices. > -Mark > "neil154" <neil154[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:0C574E77-C3E4-41BE-8891-AAFFFF0503E6[at]microsoft.com... > > The reference refers to a column "Total Annualized Return" in the > > portfolio > > view but The Money report (I use MoneyPlus H&B) does not not have a column > > with this heading so I still do not understand what the 2 columns mean and > > why they are different if I calculate for exactly 1 year. > > > "Mark" wrote: > > > > Annualized Return uses IRR: > > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/131664/en-us > > > > > > > "neil154" <neil154[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > > > news:F3B2502F-E89B-4C4A-BCF0-333DA0F0C933[at]microsoft.com... > > > > If i run a perfomance report there are 2 columns for judging > > > > performance - > > > > "%Rate of Return" & "Annual % Return". I am having a problem > > > > understanding > > > > the meaning of each column. > > > > > > > If I run the report for exactly 1 year then both columns show the exact > > > > same > > > > numbers for indexes such as Dow Jones Indutrial Average or Nasdaq > > > > Composite > > > > which I have in my watch list. In the same report for exactly 1 year > > > > the > > > > 2 > > > > columns have very different numbers for my stocks and mutual funds. > > > > For > > > > example I have a mutual fund which shows 1.28 for % Rate of Return and > > > > 21.32 > > > > for Annual % Return. > > > > > > > I would appreciate it if someone could explain the differences between > > > > the > > > > 2 > > > > columns and which column is the equivalent to the annual percentage a > > > > bank > > > > pays had I put the money in a bank account and gotten the return > > > > advertised > > > > by the bank. > > > > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > |
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#2
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| The "Annual % Return" is the Total Annualized Return using IRR. The %Rate of Return is using a simpler (basic) return calculation. The reason the the Indexes would be the same versus your actual investments is that the IRR is actually using your buys, sells, interest, dividends, etc as part of the Cash Flow calculations, whereas the indexes simply have beginnning and ending prices. -Mark "neil154" <neil154[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:0C574E77-C3E4-41BE-8891-AAFFFF0503E6[at]microsoft.com... - quote - > The reference refers to a column "Total Annualized Return" in the > portfolio > view but The Money report (I use MoneyPlus H&B) does not not have a column > with this heading so I still do not understand what the 2 columns mean and > why they are different if I calculate for exactly 1 year. > "Mark" wrote: > > Annualized Return uses IRR: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/131664/en-us > > > > "neil154" <neil154[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > > news:F3B2502F-E89B-4C4A-BCF0-333DA0F0C933[at]microsoft.com... > > > If i run a perfomance report there are 2 columns for judging > > > performance - > > > "%Rate of Return" & "Annual % Return". I am having a problem > > > understanding > > > the meaning of each column. > > > > > If I run the report for exactly 1 year then both columns show the exact > > > same > > > numbers for indexes such as Dow Jones Indutrial Average or Nasdaq > > > Composite > > > which I have in my watch list. In the same report for exactly 1 year > > > the > > > 2 > > > columns have very different numbers for my stocks and mutual funds. > > > For > > > example I have a mutual fund which shows 1.28 for % Rate of Return and > > > 21.32 > > > for Annual % Return. > > > > > I would appreciate it if someone could explain the differences between > > > the > > > 2 > > > columns and which column is the equivalent to the annual percentage a > > > bank > > > pays had I put the money in a bank account and gotten the return > > > advertised > > > by the bank. > > > > > Thanks for your help. > > |
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#1
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| The reference refers to a column "Total Annualized Return" in the portfolio view but The Money report (I use MoneyPlus H&B) does not not have a column with this heading so I still do not understand what the 2 columns mean and why they are different if I calculate for exactly 1 year. "Mark" wrote: - quote - > Annualized Return uses IRR: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/131664/en-us > "neil154" <neil154[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:F3B2502F-E89B-4C4A-BCF0-333DA0F0C933[at]microsoft.com... > > If i run a perfomance report there are 2 columns for judging performance - > > "%Rate of Return" & "Annual % Return". I am having a problem > > understanding > > the meaning of each column. > > > If I run the report for exactly 1 year then both columns show the exact > > same > > numbers for indexes such as Dow Jones Indutrial Average or Nasdaq > > Composite > > which I have in my watch list. In the same report for exactly 1 year the > > 2 > > columns have very different numbers for my stocks and mutual funds. For > > example I have a mutual fund which shows 1.28 for % Rate of Return and > > 21.32 > > for Annual % Return. > > > I would appreciate it if someone could explain the differences between the > > 2 > > columns and which column is the equivalent to the annual percentage a bank > > pays had I put the money in a bank account and gotten the return > > advertised > > by the bank. > > > Thanks for your help. |
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| Annualized Return uses IRR: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/131664/en-us "neil154" <neil154[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:F3B2502F-E89B-4C4A-BCF0-333DA0F0C933[at]microsoft.com... - quote - > If i run a perfomance report there are 2 columns for judging performance - > "%Rate of Return" & "Annual % Return". I am having a problem > understanding > the meaning of each column. > If I run the report for exactly 1 year then both columns show the exact > same > numbers for indexes such as Dow Jones Indutrial Average or Nasdaq > Composite > which I have in my watch list. In the same report for exactly 1 year the > 2 > columns have very different numbers for my stocks and mutual funds. For > example I have a mutual fund which shows 1.28 for % Rate of Return and > 21.32 > for Annual % Return. > I would appreciate it if someone could explain the differences between the > 2 > columns and which column is the equivalent to the annual percentage a bank > pays had I put the money in a bank account and gotten the return > advertised > by the bank. > Thanks for your help. |
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#-1
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| If i run a perfomance report there are 2 columns for judging performance - "%Rate of Return" & "Annual % Return". I am having a problem understanding the meaning of each column. If I run the report for exactly 1 year then both columns show the exact same numbers for indexes such as Dow Jones Indutrial Average or Nasdaq Composite which I have in my watch list. In the same report for exactly 1 year the 2 columns have very different numbers for my stocks and mutual funds. For example I have a mutual fund which shows 1.28 for % Rate of Return and 21.32 for Annual % Return. I would appreciate it if someone could explain the differences between the 2 columns and which column is the equivalent to the annual percentage a bank pays had I put the money in a bank account and gotten the return advertised by the bank. Thanks for your help. |
| Tags |
| explanation, money, performance, report |
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