Hi Scott,

Thanks very much for your help.

regards,
Kimberlyl


"Scott Tyler" wrote:

- quote -

Thanks again for all your help!!!

keep well,
Kimberly


"Dick Watson" wrote:

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Answers/comments inline.

"Kimberly Anderson" <KimberlyAnderson[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:887345D9-2FBF-4B9E-8641-8EFAE468732D[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Without clarifying which report and what all other cusotmizations are there,
I can't say for sure. Try resetting the Account Transactions report and
confirm what you are looking for is there. Open the aperatures on the
default until they are there. Close them down until they are still there and
nothing else you don't want is there. Then save that as a Favorite. I know
this works--under correct settings--as it's the kind of thing I do
frequently.

- quote -

Let me repeat again: A Loan Payment (not Bills : Auto Loan or Automobile :
Payments or any old generic Expense category, but the Special Category Loan
Payment) is a special type of transaction that has the following minimum
properties: 1) A Principal Transfer of cash from a cash account to the Loan
account to reduce its liability balance. 2) An expense against the specified
interest expense category according to the loan terms you defined the
account with. It doesn't allow you to specify a category for the whole
payment since part 1 of the payment is NOT an expense in classical
accounting as implemented by Money. The second component is an expense and
should show up in appropriate places as such.

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Nothing to debate from my point of view. I understand why you might want to
treat it as such--if so, then Loan Account is probably not a good way to do
it.

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True enough. But I'm not sure how it factors in here.

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True also. But that still doesn't make all of each payment an Expense along
the way. Again, I understand why you might want to treat it as such--if so,
then Loan Account is probably not a good way to do it.

- quote -

I suggest you either get with the program on how a Loan Account works
relative to what's going to get categorized as an Expense and what isn't or
delete the loan account and make all of each payment something like
Automobile : Payments or Bills : Auto Loan.

Another thread on the same subject? Yikes. Some comments inline.

"Kimberly Anderson" <KimberlyAnderson[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:C4719516-A533-4A6C-9430-796184748A16[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

In my case, I setup a transaction that reflects the total purchase deal
including a Automobile Payment for the sale price and taxes and so on.

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That is an annoying problem with the way Money Loan Accounts work. Theuy
provide no way to transfer money into loand made and from loans taken out.
There is a workaround but it is kinda ugly. (I can point you to where it's
documented. It's in the unofficial FAQ that I edit. But I'm in the midst of
breaking out this one specific issue from a more general question on
mortgage refinancing.) So, I usually use a transaction without
category--leve the category field blank--or with some category like "Loan
Proceeds Received" as a component of the split transaction noted above. I
use a memo field to note the relationship to the loan account where the cash
came from. With this in that purchase transaction, the total bottom line
amount of that transaction is the amount of cash I carried into the deal and
put it in the account where that cash came from.

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A Loan account recalculates the split amounts for Principal Transfer and the
interest expense component for each payment when you enter it based on the
balance when you enter and the period since the last payment entered.

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Sure.

- quote -

These are complex transactions. You are trying to get it right. No harm in
that.

"Kimberly Anderson" <KimberlyAnderson[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:887345D9-2FBF-4B9E-8641-8EFAE468732D[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Hi Kimberly,

What I do with my current car to deal with that issue is look up the book
value of my car every 6-12 months, divide the difference by the number of
months, and enter that in the asset account as "Automobile : Depreciation"
for the prior 6-12 months. On cars I owned before using Money (which was
most of them), 30% a year depreciation over the prior 12 months put me
within $150-$850 of the value at time of trade/sale. I then put a split for
"Automobile : Depreciation" as an element in the final transaction to bring
the asset account to zero.

All of my trade-ins/down payments/car payments are treated as transfers/loan
payments.

Over the course of 20 years, "Insurance : Automobile" and "Automobile :
Depreciation" are my two biggest automotive expenses.

As for tracking the payments, the payments on my last car were $600/month
for 2 years, but the interest+depreciation for those 2 years was only
$350-400/month. If I want to see what the total payments are, I can just
run a "Transactions by Payee" report for the payee that received the loan
payments.

--
Scott Tyler
agent_scotty-at-hotmail-dot-com

Still thinking...and trying to simplify the actual problem.

I like my current method of transferring from my current account to my
liability account in order to keep track of the balance of the loan.

If I can just somehow get these transfers to appear on my "car expenses"
report, my problem will be solved.





"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

Still thinking...and trying to simplify the actual problem.

I like my current method of transferring from my current account to my
liability account in order to keep track of the balance of the loan.

If I can just somehow get these transfers to appear on my "car expenses"
report, my problem will be over.





"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

Still thinking...and trying to simplify the actual problem.

I like my current method of transferring from my current account to my
liability account in order to keep track of the balance of the loan.

If I can just somehow get these transfers to appear on my "car expenses"
report, my problem will be over.




"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

Ok, I am re-reading the basics that you are trying to explain to me.

If I set up my car loan as a "loan account":
1) where is the transaction for the original purchase? I'd like to see the
loan funds go into my current account, and a withdrawal from my current
account categorised as "car: purchase". Setting up a loan account, doesnt
let you deposit the loan funds some place.
2) after an extra payment, how do I enter an interest adjustment on the
loan? I could adjust the amount owed but then I need to calculate it.

Am I making any sense with my questions?

thanks again,
Kimberly
ps I am busy selling and buying a car if you cant tell, and trying to get my
finances right!




"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

Hi again Dick.

1) my report. On the 'category' tab I have selected to include transfers
but I dont really understand wha this means if a tranfer does not have a
category. Plus, I still dont see anything different on my report.
2) loan account. When I want to enter a new transaction, I get 3 options:
make a regular loan payment, an extra loan payment, or other. The first 2 do
not let me specify a category (which is my main problem to begin with). the
'other' option
does let me specifiy a category but doesnt let me specify a withdrawal or
deposit, I 'd need to enter a negative amount)

I agree we can debate whether or not my loan payments are expenses but I see
it that way because when I sell the car, I dont get the principle amount
back, I get less. And then I categorise the proceeds of the sale as a
positive car expense which offsets the rest which gives me the net amount
that it cost me to use that car.

Maybe I have lost my mind and I am going in circles.
Any further ideas?

thanks again,
Kimberly



"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

Some comments in line below.

"Kimberly Anderson" <KimberlyAnderson[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:C379A5E3-F9D5-442A-85D8-0D5F537D13D7[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Good. At least now I can be sure we are on the same frequency. But now I
don't understand why you were unable to customize a report to see Transfers.
What report?

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You don't use "Credit Card Payments / Transfers" and/or you don't use
"Transfer" and/or "Credit Card Payment"? The former is evil. The latter two
are quite handy.

- quote -

Not an easy way. The only way is one by one.

- quote -

Again, as noted previously, best practice is to call the original payment
and the interest on a loan as expenses. The principal payment on the loan is
not an expense. But suit yourself.

Yes, and I really appreciate your help, thank-you.

I am using 2006 Deluxe with advanced registers and advanced reports.
I do not use the categories you mention.

I will experiment more with the loan account tomorrow.
Is there an easy way to move all entries from one account to another?
Otherwise I will maybe re-enter my transactions into the new account in
order to categorise them and report them as expenses.

thanks again.
Kimberly


"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

Bear with us. We are trying to help.

Are you using Essential Reports? Essential Register? Essential Bills? Are
you using an Essentials edition? Are you using the Expense Category "Credit
Card Payments / Transfers" rather than the Special Categories "Transfer" and
"Credit Card Payment"?

If so, don't.

Use Advanced *. Use Deluxe or higher. Delete the Expense Category "Credit
Card Payments / Transfers".

I think you will find many of your issues go away and the product will make
a lot more sense.

"Kimberly Anderson" <KimberlyAnderson[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:94C5263D-F6EF-4ED1-B231-87A829523472[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

In general, see the other thread. I think these are all related issues.

When you say you tried classification, did you define one of the two
classifications and see two lines for category and classification where
there used to be one line for categorization? Did you see a tab in the
report customization that didn't used to be there to select this
classification?

Before you change anything, let's get on a firm footing as to how it's all
intended to work.

"Kimberly Anderson" <KimberlyAnderson[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message newsEDA9F26-EC3E-4F2B-8CC6-124EC381E2D3[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:36:05 -0700, Kimberly Anderson
<KimberlyAnderson[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

- quote -

bank account.


Remove del for email

Wow, I am frustrated.

I just experimented with a loan account and it doesnt appear as an account
that I can report on. It is also very restrictive with the type of entries
you can add. I need to be able to add adjustments to the loan account due to
interest adjustments after extra payments. (here in South Africa my loan
amount includes the full term interest and is adjusted if I make extra
payments)

I just dont see a way around using 2 separate entries if I want to model
both accounts yet still report my loan payments as a car expense.





"Kimberly Anderson" wrote:

- quote -

I agree 2 unlinked entries is silly.

I originally wanted to set it up as a loan account but I couldnt get my
payments to calculate correctly and this type of account seemed very
restrictive. I dont care to separate the interest from the priniciple
anyway. I would use 0%.

But, if I use the Loan Payment category, I cant categorise it under Car
Expenses can I?

I suppose I could try that type of account now. I doesnt look like I can
change my account now to loan account so I'll have to create a new account
and maybe transfer the entries?

thanks again.
Kimberly

"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

Hi Dick,

I definitely have transfers included for my report but but still dont see
them on my report.

I did try the classification idea too. Car expense: Loan. I selected it on
one of the transfers, selected it in the customisation for my report but
still no dice. It doesnt show up on the report.

I definitely want to track the balance of my loan so I want to have an
account for my loan.

See my other post, should I just have separate entries? If so, is there a
way to easily change my transfers to withdrawals? (I've wondered this before
about Money, if there is any way to run scripts on the data).

thanks again for your help.
cheers,
Kimberly




"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

If you setup a Money Loan Account--a special type of Liability Account in
Money--you should use the special category of Loan Payment. Loan Payments
are unique in that they include at least two split components: an Interest
Expense component and a Principal Transfer component. The former is just an
expense categorized, the latter serves the Transfer function to reduce the
balance of the liability. The Loan Payment calculates the values of each of
these components based on the loan terms you taught Money when you setup the
Loan Account.

But, generally I disagree with you. If both your bank account and the loan
account are modeled in Money, Transfer (or the Principal Transfer component
of a Loan Payment) is a better choice than two disassociated transactions.

"Kimberly Anderson" <KimberlyAnderson[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:EE22E2C8-1483-4DA5-8C8A-57ACD8210397[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Ok, so now I've realised that I shouldnt have used transfers to pay off my
loan account. I figure I should have 2 entries: 1 withdrawal from my bank
account, and 1 decrease on the loan account.

So, now, how do I change all my transfers to withdrawals????

thanks again.
Kimberly



"Bob Peel, MVP" wrote:

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