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  #8  
Old 08-07-2007, 11:45 PM
brett
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How can equity be < cost basis?

On Aug 7, 3:54 pm, "Mark" <a...[at]abcd.com> wrote:
- quote -

> Take a look athttp://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/partsub/funds/portfolio.asp?Fund...
> In the Asset Allocation chart you'll see that Stocks (equity) account for
> 0.5% of the allocation of this fund.


Ok. Guess it's all starting to make sense now.

This question is more complicated: YTD return in Money be less than
that in my online account. Both have the same beginning and current
balance. However, the money gained during this period is less in
Money than in the online account. Is there a good place I should
start looking for the discrepancy? Several funds are involved and all
virtually match the online account values.


Thanks,
Brett

  #7  
Old 08-07-2007, 11:08 PM
Cal Learner-- MVP
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How can equity be < cost basis?

In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:

- quote -

> On Aug 7, 11:44 am, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
> > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > On Aug 7, 8:53 am, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
> > > > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > > > On Aug 6, 9:59 pm, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
> > > > > > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > > > > > I'm using MS Money 2004 SB. I have a fund that the equity is less
> > > > > > > than the cost basis. It doesn't seem to make since given the
> > > > > > > purchases and current price on that fund. I made two purchases:
> > > > > > > > 6/5 50.437 [at] $14.87 = $750
> > > > > > > 6/6 20.229 [at] 14.83 = $300
> > > > > > > > plus a small dividend. Last price was $14.33 and my avg cost is
> > > > > > > $14.854. Gain is -37.41%. Cost basis is $1059.54 and equity is
> > > > > > > $5.21. My market value on this fund is $1022.13.
> > > > > > > > Given those numbers, how can the fund be down by 37.41% and equity be
> > > > > > > only $5.21? My market value matches that in the online broker
> > > > > > > account.
> > > > > > > The word equity seems to have a lot of meanings.
> > > > > > > Taking a stab-- is this a bond fund?
> > > > > > No, it's a Fidelity mutual fund - FNMIX. There are some other funds
> > > > > in my MS Money Fidelity portfolio that have the same problem.
> > > > > However, in the online account, the overall portfolio return is
> > > > > different than that report by Money. My other non Fidelity accounts
> > > > > seem right on.
> > > > > I don't use that column, but for a stock it matches the Market Value
> > > > column.
> > > > > I am inferring that the word "equity" is being used to distinguish
> > > > stocks (equity) as opposed to debt investments such as bonds. This
> > > > would be like definition 2 ofhttp://www.investorwords.com/1726/equity.html. I expect that for a
> > > > balanced fund, it would have a number that is roughly half of the
> > > > Market Value column.
> > > > > This is Fidelity's description of that fund:http://content.members.fidelity.com/...10836,00.html#...
> > > > By "debt securities" I think they mean non-stocks, such as bonds or
> > > > commercial paper.
> > > > > I do suggest that you might consider configuring in the Price
> > > > Appreciation column. In a taxable account, this can be useful when
> > > > you are looking for capital losses to take.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > I still don't understand why it says down by 37%. Where does that
> > > come from?
> > > What is the actual column heading on the column where you see/saw

> > the -37%? Are you sure you are not looking at the "Ann. Ret."
> > column?- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -

> Sorry. I was looking at "Gain", which is actually a dollar amount and
> not a percentage. BTW, this is the same value as "Price
> Appreciation".


Those will match until you get dividends/distributions. Remember
that dividends are real money.

- quote -

> If the market value is $1022.13 and the cost basis is $1059.54, that
> gives -$37.41, the number I confused with a percentage. So far, so
> good. How does the "Equity Amount" column then get $5.21? If my Gain
> is a negative number, how can there be any equity?


My inference is that of your $1022.13, that fund holds $5.21 of
value in equity (stocks or preferred stocks) and $1,016.92 in debt
securities (bonds, notes, repurchase obligations, etc).
  #6  
Old 08-07-2007, 10:54 PM
Mark
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How can equity be < cost basis?

Take a look at
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor...1&Symbol=FNMIX

In the Asset Allocation chart you'll see that Stocks (equity) account for
0.5% of the allocation of this fund.

-Mark

"Cal Learner-- MVP" <via_newsgroup[at]please.tnx> wrote in message
news:7euhb317ogs72he93i3ik77a097qvm8o71[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

> In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > On Aug 7, 11:44 am, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> > wrote:
> > > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > > On Aug 7, 8:53 am, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
> > > > > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > > > > On Aug 6, 9:59 pm, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > > > > > > I'm using MS Money 2004 SB. I have a fund that the equity is
> > > > > > > > less
> > > > > > > > than the cost basis. It doesn't seem to make since given the
> > > > > > > > purchases and current price on that fund. I made two purchases:
> > > > > > > > > > 6/5 50.437 [at] $14.87 = $750
> > > > > > > > 6/6 20.229 [at] 14.83 = $300
> > > > > > > > > > plus a small dividend. Last price was $14.33 and my avg cost is
> > > > > > > > $14.854. Gain is -37.41%. Cost basis is $1059.54 and equity
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > $5.21. My market value on this fund is $1022.13.
> > > > > > > > > > Given those numbers, how can the fund be down by 37.41% and
> > > > > > > > equity be
> > > > > > > > only $5.21? My market value matches that in the online broker
> > > > > > > > account.
> > > > > > > > > The word equity seems to have a lot of meanings.
> > > > > > > > > Taking a stab-- is this a bond fund?
> > > > > > > > No, it's a Fidelity mutual fund - FNMIX. There are some other funds
> > > > > > in my MS Money Fidelity portfolio that have the same problem.
> > > > > > However, in the online account, the overall portfolio return is
> > > > > > different than that report by Money. My other non Fidelity accounts
> > > > > > seem right on.
> > > > > > > I don't use that column, but for a stock it matches the Market Value
> > > > > column.
> > > > > > > I am inferring that the word "equity" is being used to distinguish
> > > > > stocks (equity) as opposed to debt investments such as bonds. This
> > > > > would be like definition 2
> > > > > ofhttp://www.investorwords.com/1726/equity.html. I expect that for a
> > > > > balanced fund, it would have a number that is roughly half of the
> > > > > Market Value column.
> > > > > > > This is Fidelity's description of that
> > > > > fund:http://content.members.fidelity.com/...10836,00.html#...
> > > > > By "debt securities" I think they mean non-stocks, such as bonds or
> > > > > commercial paper.
> > > > > > > I do suggest that you might consider configuring in the Price
> > > > > Appreciation column. In a taxable account, this can be useful when
> > > > > you are looking for capital losses to take.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > I still don't understand why it says down by 37%. Where does that
> > > > come from?
> > > > > What is the actual column heading on the column where you see/saw
> > > the -37%? Are you sure you are not looking at the "Ann. Ret."
> > > column?- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > Sorry. I was looking at "Gain", which is actually a dollar amount and

> > not a percentage. BTW, this is the same value as "Price
> > Appreciation".

> Those will match until you get dividends/distributions. Remember
> that dividends are real money.
> > > If the market value is $1022.13 and the cost basis is $1059.54, that

> > gives -$37.41, the number I confused with a percentage. So far, so
> > good. How does the "Equity Amount" column then get $5.21? If my Gain
> > is a negative number, how can there be any equity?
> > My inference is that of your $1022.13, that fund holds $5.21 of

> value in equity (stocks or preferred stocks) and $1,016.92 in debt
> securities (bonds, notes, repurchase obligations, etc).


  #5  
Old 08-07-2007, 10:18 PM
brett
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How can equity be < cost basis?

On Aug 7, 11:44 am, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnxwrote:
- quote -

> In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > On Aug 7, 8:53 am, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
> > > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > > On Aug 6, 9:59 pm, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
> > > > > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > > > > I'm using MS Money 2004 SB. I have a fund that the equity is less
> > > > > > than the cost basis. It doesn't seem to make since given the
> > > > > > purchases and current price on that fund. I made two purchases:
> > > > > > 6/5 50.437 [at] $14.87 = $750
> > > > > > 6/6 20.229 [at] 14.83 = $300
> > > > > > plus a small dividend. Last price was $14.33 and my avg cost is
> > > > > > $14.854. Gain is -37.41%. Cost basis is $1059.54 and equity is
> > > > > > $5.21. My market value on this fund is $1022.13.
> > > > > > Given those numbers, how can the fund be down by 37.41% and equity be
> > > > > > only $5.21? My market value matches that in the online broker
> > > > > > account.
> > > > > The word equity seems to have a lot of meanings.
> > > > > Taking a stab-- is this a bond fund?
> > > > No, it's a Fidelity mutual fund - FNMIX. There are some other funds
> > > > in my MS Money Fidelity portfolio that have the same problem.
> > > > However, in the online account, the overall portfolio return is
> > > > different than that report by Money. My other non Fidelity accounts
> > > > seem right on.
> > > I don't use that column, but for a stock it matches the Market Value
> > > column.
> > > I am inferring that the word "equity" is being used to distinguish
> > > stocks (equity) as opposed to debt investments such as bonds. This
> > > would be like definition 2 ofhttp://www.investorwords.com/1726/equity.html. I expect that for a
> > > balanced fund, it would have a number that is roughly half of the
> > > Market Value column.
> > > This is Fidelity's description of that fund:http://content.members.fidelity.com/...10836,00.html#...
> > > By "debt securities" I think they mean non-stocks, such as bonds or
> > > commercial paper.
> > > I do suggest that you might consider configuring in the Price
> > > Appreciation column. In a taxable account, this can be useful when
> > > you are looking for capital losses to take.- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -

> > I still don't understand why it says down by 37%. Where does that
> > come from?

> What is the actual column heading on the column where you see/saw
> the -37%? Are you sure you are not looking at the "Ann. Ret."
> column?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -


Sorry. I was looking at "Gain", which is actually a dollar amount and
not a percentage. BTW, this is the same value as "Price
Appreciation".

If the market value is $1022.13 and the cost basis is $1059.54, that
gives -$37.41, the number I confused with a percentage. So far, so
good. How does the "Equity Amount" column then get $5.21? If my Gain
is a negative number, how can there be any equity?


  #4  
Old 08-07-2007, 06:44 PM
Cal Learner-- MVP
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How can equity be < cost basis?

In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:

- quote -

> On Aug 7, 8:53 am, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
> > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > On Aug 6, 9:59 pm, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
> > > > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > > > I'm using MS Money 2004 SB. I have a fund that the equity is less
> > > > > than the cost basis. It doesn't seem to make since given the
> > > > > purchases and current price on that fund. I made two purchases:
> > > > > > 6/5 50.437 [at] $14.87 = $750
> > > > > 6/6 20.229 [at] 14.83 = $300
> > > > > > plus a small dividend. Last price was $14.33 and my avg cost is
> > > > > $14.854. Gain is -37.41%. Cost basis is $1059.54 and equity is
> > > > > $5.21. My market value on this fund is $1022.13.
> > > > > > Given those numbers, how can the fund be down by 37.41% and equity be
> > > > > only $5.21? My market value matches that in the online broker
> > > > > account.
> > > > > The word equity seems to have a lot of meanings.
> > > > > Taking a stab-- is this a bond fund?
> > > > No, it's a Fidelity mutual fund - FNMIX. There are some other funds
> > > in my MS Money Fidelity portfolio that have the same problem.
> > > However, in the online account, the overall portfolio return is
> > > different than that report by Money. My other non Fidelity accounts
> > > seem right on.
> > > I don't use that column, but for a stock it matches the Market Value

> > column.
> > > I am inferring that the word "equity" is being used to distinguish

> > stocks (equity) as opposed to debt investments such as bonds. This
> > would be like definition 2 ofhttp://www.investorwords.com/1726/equity.html. I expect that for a
> > balanced fund, it would have a number that is roughly half of the
> > Market Value column.
> > > This is Fidelity's description of that fund:http://content.members.fidelity.com/...10836,00.html#...

> > By "debt securities" I think they mean non-stocks, such as bonds or
> > commercial paper.
> > > I do suggest that you might consider configuring in the Price

> > Appreciation column. In a taxable account, this can be useful when
> > you are looking for capital losses to take.- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -

> I still don't understand why it says down by 37%. Where does that
> come from?


What is the actual column heading on the column where you see/saw
the -37%? Are you sure you are not looking at the "Ann. Ret."
column?


  #3  
Old 08-07-2007, 05:55 PM
brett
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How can equity be < cost basis?

On Aug 7, 8:53 am, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
- quote -

> In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > On Aug 6, 9:59 pm, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
> > > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > > I'm using MS Money 2004 SB. I have a fund that the equity is less
> > > > than the cost basis. It doesn't seem to make since given the
> > > > purchases and current price on that fund. I made two purchases:
> > > > 6/5 50.437 [at] $14.87 = $750
> > > > 6/6 20.229 [at] 14.83 = $300
> > > > plus a small dividend. Last price was $14.33 and my avg cost is
> > > > $14.854. Gain is -37.41%. Cost basis is $1059.54 and equity is
> > > > $5.21. My market value on this fund is $1022.13.
> > > > Given those numbers, how can the fund be down by 37.41% and equity be
> > > > only $5.21? My market value matches that in the online broker
> > > > account.
> > > The word equity seems to have a lot of meanings.
> > > Taking a stab-- is this a bond fund?

> > No, it's a Fidelity mutual fund - FNMIX. There are some other funds
> > in my MS Money Fidelity portfolio that have the same problem.
> > However, in the online account, the overall portfolio return is
> > different than that report by Money. My other non Fidelity accounts
> > seem right on.

> I don't use that column, but for a stock it matches the Market Value
> column.
> I am inferring that the word "equity" is being used to distinguish
> stocks (equity) as opposed to debt investments such as bonds. This
> would be like definition 2 ofhttp://www.investorwords.com/1726/equity.html. I expect that for a
> balanced fund, it would have a number that is roughly half of the
> Market Value column.
> This is Fidelity's description of that fund:http://content.members.fidelity.com/...10836,00.html#...
> By "debt securities" I think they mean non-stocks, such as bonds or
> commercial paper.
> I do suggest that you might consider configuring in the Price
> Appreciation column. In a taxable account, this can be useful when
> you are looking for capital losses to take.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -


I still don't understand why it says down by 37%. Where does that
come from?

  #2  
Old 08-07-2007, 03:53 PM
Cal Learner-- MVP
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How can equity be < cost basis?

In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:

- quote -

> On Aug 6, 9:59 pm, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
> > In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > > I'm using MS Money 2004 SB. I have a fund that the equity is less
> > > than the cost basis. It doesn't seem to make since given the
> > > purchases and current price on that fund. I made two purchases:
> > > > 6/5 50.437 [at] $14.87 = $750
> > > 6/6 20.229 [at] 14.83 = $300
> > > > plus a small dividend. Last price was $14.33 and my avg cost is
> > > $14.854. Gain is -37.41%. Cost basis is $1059.54 and equity is
> > > $5.21. My market value on this fund is $1022.13.
> > > > Given those numbers, how can the fund be down by 37.41% and equity be
> > > only $5.21? My market value matches that in the online broker
> > > account.
> > > The word equity seems to have a lot of meanings.
> > > Taking a stab-- is this a bond fund?

> No, it's a Fidelity mutual fund - FNMIX. There are some other funds
> in my MS Money Fidelity portfolio that have the same problem.
> However, in the online account, the overall portfolio return is
> different than that report by Money. My other non Fidelity accounts
> seem right on.


I don't use that column, but for a stock it matches the Market Value
column.

I am inferring that the word "equity" is being used to distinguish
stocks (equity) as opposed to debt investments such as bonds. This
would be like definition 2 of
http://www.investorwords.com/1726/equity.html . I expect that for a
balanced fund, it would have a number that is roughly half of the
Market Value column.

This is Fidelity's description of that fund:
http://content.members.fidelity.com/....html#overview
By "debt securities" I think they mean non-stocks, such as bonds or
commercial paper.

I do suggest that you might consider configuring in the Price
Appreciation column. In a taxable account, this can be useful when
you are looking for capital losses to take.
  #1  
Old 08-07-2007, 04:59 AM
Cal Learner-- MVP
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How can equity be < cost basis?

In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:

- quote -

> I'm using MS Money 2004 SB. I have a fund that the equity is less
> than the cost basis. It doesn't seem to make since given the
> purchases and current price on that fund. I made two purchases:
> 6/5 50.437 [at] $14.87 = $750
> 6/6 20.229 [at] 14.83 = $300
> plus a small dividend. Last price was $14.33 and my avg cost is
> $14.854. Gain is -37.41%. Cost basis is $1059.54 and equity is
> $5.21. My market value on this fund is $1022.13.
> Given those numbers, how can the fund be down by 37.41% and equity be
> only $5.21? My market value matches that in the online broker
> account.


The word equity seems to have a lot of meanings.

Taking a stab-- is this a bond fund?
 
Old 08-07-2007, 04:58 AM
brett
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How can equity be < cost basis?

On Aug 6, 9:59 pm, Cal Learner-- MVP <via_newsgr...[at]please.tnx> wrote:
- quote -

> In microsoft.public.money, brett wrote:
> > I'm using MS Money 2004 SB. I have a fund that the equity is less
> > than the cost basis. It doesn't seem to make since given the
> > purchases and current price on that fund. I made two purchases:
> > 6/5 50.437 [at] $14.87 = $750
> > 6/6 20.229 [at] 14.83 = $300
> > plus a small dividend. Last price was $14.33 and my avg cost is
> > $14.854. Gain is -37.41%. Cost basis is $1059.54 and equity is
> > $5.21. My market value on this fund is $1022.13.
> > Given those numbers, how can the fund be down by 37.41% and equity be
> > only $5.21? My market value matches that in the online broker
> > account.

> The word equity seems to have a lot of meanings.
> Taking a stab-- is this a bond fund?


No, it's a Fidelity mutual fund - FNMIX. There are some other funds
in my MS Money Fidelity portfolio that have the same problem.
However, in the online account, the overall portfolio return is
different than that report by Money. My other non Fidelity accounts
seem right on.

  #-1  
Old 08-07-2007, 03:54 AM
brett
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can equity be < cost basis?

I'm using MS Money 2004 SB. I have a fund that the equity is less
than the cost basis. It doesn't seem to make since given the
purchases and current price on that fund. I made two purchases:

6/5 50.437 [at] $14.87 = $750
6/6 20.229 [at] 14.83 = $300

plus a small dividend. Last price was $14.33 and my avg cost is
$14.854. Gain is -37.41%. Cost basis is $1059.54 and equity is
$5.21. My market value on this fund is $1022.13.

Given those numbers, how can the fund be down by 37.41% and equity be
only $5.21? My market value matches that in the online broker
account.

Thanks,
Brett

 

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