I tend to agree that you'd want to budget the transfers TO the account, but
not OUT of the account, since you aren't using the account towards a budgeted
savings goal. (Well, retirement is a savings goal, but I understand in this
case it's not money you want to get to).

Regardless, I am using Money 06 and having the same problem as the orginal
poster: My 401K account has its checkbox checked that says "include this
account in the budget planner." I can't uncheck it. But even more confusing
is that it's set up just like my husband's 401K and his checkbox is not
grayed out, and I can uncheck it. Also, his 401K is accessible from the Cash
Flow reports, and mine is not. I'd love to figure out how to get his 401K out
of there because it's not cash I ever want to see in any cash flow report.

Any ideas?


"Ken" wrote:

- quote -

Arriving late to the party and not with a solution but more of a related
question:

-If you are tracking Gross Income in your Budget would you not want to
include Deductions to Investment accounts?

"harrelsonesq" wrote:

- quote -

Susan-
You've been very helpful and patient. Your points are all well taken. I
examine my budget versus actuals after all the charges are in which is about
2 weeks after the end of the month which helps me see trends and make
adjustments. I think I can use my budget the way it is. More flexibility
would be nicer. Maybe a newer version of Money is in my future.
Thank you.
Marty

"harrelsonesq" wrote:

- quote -

I didn't recall there being that much change in the budget between 04 and
95, but then again I didn't use 04 for very long, so I may have been
mistaken about that.

I would say that I find the 05 version much more useful than older versions.
The MS Money budget function has always been a little weird, but I have been
able to get useable results in 05, at least.

The "actual" versus "budgeted" has never been useful to me, due to the
variability in most regular bills, such as utilities.. I don't need a
computer to tell me that I'm "overbudget" in power and "underbudget" in gas,
in July, after all. Not being able to average those kinds of expenses over
12 months has always been so irritating to me that I have never really paid
much attention to that part of it. Also, being "under" my budgeted income
mid-month, when I have another check coming on the 31st, and like that.
Actually, I would rather it just used net income, and didn't even bother
with taxes and other deductions at all, but of course it won't do that as
long as you itemize your paycheck, which is useful for other things.

Either the change between versions, or the way I use the feature, or a
combination of the two, makes the categorization of the contributions work
fine for me. Conceptually, 401(k) contributions are just as much an expense,
budget-wise, as federal income tax, or putting the money down the toilet,
even though I do understand that they have just been transferred elsewhere.
I guess the way I think of it is that the money doesn't really belong to me
any more, if "me" is the person paying the July 2007 power bill, rather than
some hypothetical old person 25 or so years from now.

When I'm interested in seeing how my retirement savings are coming, I do
want to see that transfer take place. Just not in the budget.

Money handles that perspective shift pretty well these days.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Susan

"likes_dals" <likesdals[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4A74D142-23F5-4D80-BA03-FCD30206AF9C[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Susan-
Thanks for your responses. I'll attempt to respond with in-line comments
below. I apologize for the wordiness and the underlying frustration. I have
no problem with updating to M05 or newer but I understand that M07 has a host
of other problems. Thanks for listening!
Marty

"harrelsonesq" wrote:

- quote -

I'm simply trying to create an easily readible comparison of actual and
budget amount but in the process I'm trying determine what M04 is doing to
distort the comparison.

- quote -

M04 has no check list. Instead I can include accounts under various
subheadings under income and expense headings. Some accounts have operable
Include in Budget check boxes in Account details. Presumably the result is
the same.

- quote -

Same applies to me.

- quote -

I agree! If the 401k account shouldn't be included in budget planner why is
the check box checked by default??!! I think it should be UNchecked by
default!

- quote -

It IS useful to see 401k transfers come out of the paycheck but as a neutral
transaction it shouldn't be in the expense column of a budget UNLESS the
transfer can be also be put in the Budget column.

To recap what I'm seeing, in the M04 budget screen there is a column for
Actual expenses & income. There is another column for Budgeted expenses &
income. (And one column for the difference of course.) There are rows for
various expenses and income. In my screen there is also a row under a
heading called Special in which Transfers Out of Budget are shown. The
dilema for my situation is that the Transfers Out are shown in the Actual
column but not in the Budget column. If I could enter a budget amount in the
Budget column OR take the Transfers Out out of the Actual column my dilema
would be over because I could compare Actual amounts with Budgeted amounts.

- quote -

I guess I'm not understanding exactly what you would like it to do.

I have Money 05, and it is the same in my setup as you describe. That is,
the option to uncheck the box for "Include in Budget Planner,:" is
unavailable.

However, in the Budget itself, "Edit Settings," gives me a list of accounts
to include in the Budget, and the 401(k) cash account is not on the list. So
I couldn't put it in the Budget if I tried, which is fine, because I don't
want to.

The only account I have checked in the list is my checking account, because
that's where my deposits go and the majority of my expenditures come out of.

I think that the check box in the account details for the 401(k) means
something different from what it sounds like, because "include in Budget
Planner," does not mean that it's included in the Budget.

Perhaps counterintuitively, that check box makes it possible for the
transfer out of your deposit account to appear in the budget as coming out
of your net check, but as a transfer out rather than an expense. Again, that
behavior is correct.

If it didn't take it out of your net check, your budgeted income would be
more than it really is. I don't want to think I have money today that I
won't be able to get at for 20 years. Also, if my contribution is $100, and
my expenses are $100 more than my income, maybe I need to stop contributing
until I can figure out where I can cut (or until I get a raise).

Perhaps I'm not getting what is wrong with it being that way, as long as the
result is correct. If I have missed the point, please say so.

Susan

"likes_dals" <likesdals[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F70B7549-23E2-4743-B2D0-BBEE9B91F6DC[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Susan, I couldn't agree with you more that this account **shouldn't** be
included in the Budget Planner. Trouble is the check box is checked **and**
grayed out by default and thus the account is included in the Budget Planner.

What is the downside of changing this from a retirement account to an
investment account where I have the option of including it in the BP or not?

BTW this is Money 2004. Do you know if retirement accounts in newer
versions work the same way?

Regards,
Marty


"harrelsonesq" wrote:

- quote -

It's a retirement account. By definition, a retirement account is not
accessible for everyday expenses, so you shouldn't include it in your
budget.

Yes, it is a Transfer, but you are effectively taking that money right out
of your liquid assets, so it acts more like an expense from a budgeting
standpoint.

"Transfers out of budget accounts" is exactly the right characterization of
401(k) contributions.

Susan

"likes_dals" <likesdals[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C2DF2D4E-2A54-4674-8D64-2F49B7148FEB[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Hi-
I enter contributions to my 401k amount in Deductions before Taxes tab as
Transfer : 401k (Contributions) when my paycheck is entered as a deposit
into my checking account. These amounts then show up as Transfers out of
budget accounts under the Special heading on the Review Your Current Budget
Status screen probably because the Include This Account in the Budget Planner
box is checked in the 401k account Change Account Details screen. As this is
a transfer and not an expense I want to uncheck the box but it is grayed out.


What makes this account different than the others where the check box is not
grayed out?

Thank you for your assistance.
Marty