I think there's more of that in the 401k business than could really stand
the light of day. Think of a 0.0001% handle on the trillions held in 401k
plans. It's too big a number for even honest folk to resist.

"Chris Cowles" <spam_magnet[at]remove-me-bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%23bGhhSWeGHA.3792[at]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
- quote -

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko[at]mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:uOQEXGOeGHA.5040[at]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
- quote -

In other industries that's called 'skim'.
--
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL

For some plans, even those institutional classes of the fund aren't exact
because the 401k "fund" holds one of those plus some cash for liquidity less
some "administrative expenses".

"Ray" <raybosley[at]hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eirO%23oNeGHA.3888[at]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
- quote -

You're right that the program doesn't really leave you much choice. I've
looked at these funds further and some of them have up to seven or eight
"equivalents" probably for different institutional classes. I'm going to
let it ride and do my manual price updates for now (like I have a choice).
Luckily the 401K on-line site posts the daily price updates so I do have
access to the prices and don't have to wait for a statement.

Thanks for the info and the advice.

Ray

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko[at]mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:exITz0BeGHA.1276[at]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
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If you want the data correct for these private funds, your only choice over
the long haul is to remove the symbol. If you want, add the underlying
public fund to your watch account with its symbol. (You end up with two
Investments defined: "My 401k's XXXXX fund" with no symbol and lots of
holdings and "XXXXX fund" in the watch account with a symbol and news and so
on but no holdings.)

I know this doesn't solve everything, but these private funds leave little
other choice. Were I designing the product, I'd allow an Investment to be
derived from another for purposes of news and, especially, performance
comparisons to the underlying investment and so forth. But I guess nobody at
Microsoft has ever been in a 401k (most of them) that work this way. If it's
any consolation, a Portfolio at Morningstar has the same limitation.

"Ray" <raybosley[at]hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ecQzPIBeGHA.1208[at]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
- quote -

True, I suppose I could track these without a symbol, but Money still seems
to pull good information on the Mutual Fund Characteristics for Portfolio
Analysis.

I'm just dealing with it for now as I have learned to turn off Auto-Updates
for any new funds right away. Its just the initial group that retains some
On-Line Pricing.

Thanks again,

Ray

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko[at]mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:%239a1JEPdGHA.3908[at]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
- quote -

Have you deleted the symbols (for investments that you don't actually own
since the 401k plan really is offering a derivative) from the investments in
question?

"Ray" <raybosley[at]hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Owl7BeOdGHA.3632[at]TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
- quote -

I've been trying to delete all the prices tagged Online one-by-one as these
are the prices that don't match the 401K quoted prices. I've been leaving
in the ones with Buy or Update as I have added those myself and their prices
match correctly.

The Online prices I delete just seem to keep coming back. Its not a huge
deal, just slightly annoying.

Thanks,

Ray

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko[at]mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:OyLP4xCdGHA.3952[at]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
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I re-read this differently.

You say you've deleted previous on-line price updates. How so? Price
history, one-by-one? (The only way I know of besides Update quote list|Clear
historical quotes which is not symbol selective--it gets everything that was
in there from quotes before a certain date but not everything as I'm about
to note.)

IF NAVs for the symbols in question were used as NAVs in transactions (Buys,
Reinvests, Sells, etc.) then they are getting in price history from these.
That will be a lot harder to fix after the fact because your shares/units
will get all screwed up.

Example:
I buy 100 shares of XYZ at $10 per share for a $1000 contribution. That's a
$10 per share history point without downloading ANYTHING.

I decide that it really wasn't $10 per share, but $67.75 per unit.

Fixing what's in history as a quote now requires changing the 100 shares of
XYZ at $10 per share to be 14.760148 units of (the fund with no symbol) at
$67.749998170750049389748666476786 per unit.

"Ray" <raybosley[at]hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uD1EWbCdGHA.3632[at]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
- quote -

You need to remove the symbol from the investment details. For two reasons.
The first reason is it will prevent the investment from updating price. The
second reason is the answer to your first question. Many 401k plans tell you
(at the surface) they are investing in fund XYZ. But when you read the fine
print, what they are really investing in is a "fund" that owns mostly XYZ
and has some cash floating around for liquidity and has some administrative
expenses of its own. The problem is that the latter fund isn't publicly
available and doesn't quote by symbol. For this reason, using the symbol of
the underlying fund won't work. It won't track the private fund's cash float
and expenses.

"Ray" <raybosley[at]hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uD1EWbCdGHA.3632[at]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
- quote -

I have a 401K that tracks NAV of the funds differently than the prices
auto-downloaded by Money for the same symbol (don't ask me why???). I have
turned off Auto-Update of those funds so I can manually update the fund
prices myself.

The problem is that no matter how many times I try to delete previous
on-line price updates, they remain with the Fund. This is kind of minor,
but also kind of annoying. I've learned when I add a new fund to this
account to disable price updates before my next update and this works for
new fund additions, but the old funds are still maintaining those on-line
price updates. What's weird is a lot of the prices are from dates before I
even initially purchased the funds in the account.

I have run the Clear Historical prices and everything else I could find.

Thanks,

Ray