I'm a firm believer that the plan administrators don't want it to be any
more "simple" except in the sense that it'd be even more opaque to the
people whose money they are handling. They are benefiting handsomely from
the system as it exists now. They do not want greater transparency of how
these plans are run and in whose interest things are done.

Think about scraping off even a 0.01% annual handle on > $2T invested in
these plans. That's $200M! Look at what has been identified as going on in
the comparatively smaller, more transparent, more closely regulated mutual
fund industry.

Likewise, there are far more participapants that just can't be bothered than
there are that really are willing to invest the energy and effort to
understand what is going on.

"L" <L[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E8B39A3B-E685-4AF8-9D13-20E337748325[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

You are correct... I need to find out more about what is going on with my
401k. It's just so damn complicated; I don't know what the dividend or fees
are. I can check online & move things around anytime. That’s the only way I
know what is going on. I just got my quarterly paper statement today. 7 pages
mostly blank with a 1 line description of the fund objective. The first page
is the only thing specific to my account. Line Item: Withdrawals/Fees -
Dollars no explanations. And I hate paper... the welfare 401k carrier can't
provide it electronically.
My company says they are not allowed to give me financial advice. Not sure
if that’s federally regulated or they don't want the liability. I have called
the carrier & it's like asking credit card company to explain how they
calculate interest and when they can't they say "we use a formula" when asked
to produce it they can't. I guess I'll have to call again. Maybe I'll get
someone who likes their job...

Why can't it be simple? I let you use my money & you pay me for it... 8-)
I guess once I get a better handle on how things work I'll be able to apply
it in money.
Thanks for your help.


"L" wrote:

- quote -

Comments inline...

(My first try apparently tripped the SPAM filters. Let me see if I can
guess...)

"L" <L[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:86681B00-06B1-4691-8088-C9C20AC41DF2[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Given the complexity of 401(k)s and the varieties of plans and investments
offered, I don't know how they could do much better than they do and still
make the product suitable for broad use. On this one, I'll defend the Money
team.

- quote -

How's Money supposed to divine it? Do you get statements? Does your plan
have a website with transaction history? A summary plan description
describing how it works? A plan administrator you can call and ask? If you
want to understand what's going on and whether or not you are making sound
choices, you will have to put some effort into it. Surely somehow the plan
knows what the purchase price/date for your investments was...

- quote -

Sure it does. That's the way investments work. You own share. The market
value of the shares fluctuates. The value of the holding at any point is the
product of the number of shares times the share price. Money deals with this
quite well if the funds are publicly traded; less well for private funds
that it can't readily get share/unit values for.

- quote -

It won't. It will effect the balance in the Investment Cash Account. Just
like adjusting, say, a checking account balance. Say you have checkinc and a
savings account. You make lots of transfers between one and the other. When
you adjust the balance of one or the other account, that transfer history
doesn't change.

A working assumption here is that you will somehow, even via the Account
Summary Update, teach Money about Investements you hold in the plan. The
Payheck, properly setup to account for money transferring to the plan, just
transfers the money to the Investment Cash Account. Once it's there, the
cash is used to buy Investments. The value of the 401(k) is, at any time,
the sum of the cash not invested yet, and the sum of the product of the
number of shares of each investment times its share value.

- quote -

If you do as I recommended and account for the contributions, you will have
solved the first part of the puzzle. If you don't want to deal with the
investment activity directly, then using the Account Summary Update to tell
Money the information off your statements (cash balance, and value and
number of units/shares of each investment held) followed by the Money
reporting tools for an investment account will solve the second part of the
puzzle.

- quote -

I think you need to research the investment options in your plan and make
better choices--assuming your plan actually offers better choices. My
account is up 5.7% on the year (I had to back into this since the goofy plan
reports "personal invesment performance" by comparing closing balance to
opening balance without taking out contributions!). My wife's is up 5.6%. If
you have a savings account that's annually y_i_e_l_ding 20%+, I'd love to
hear
about it.

- quote -

So, you have this f_r_e_e money. Now you need to figure out how to make it
perform better.....

Comments inline...

"L" <L[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:86681B00-06B1-4691-8088-C9C20AC41DF2[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Given the complexity of 401(k)s and the varieties of plans and investments
offered, I don't know how they could do much better than they do and still
make the product suitable for broad use. On this one, I'll defend the Money
team.

- quote -

How's Money supposed to divine it? Do you get statements? Does your plan
have a website with transaction history? A summary plan description
describing how it works? A plan administrator you can call and ask? If you
want to understand what's going on and whether or not you are making sound
choices, you will have to put some effort into it. Surely somehow the plan
knows what the purchase price/date for your investments was...

- quote -

Sure it does. That's the way investments work. You own share. The market
value of the shares fluctuates. The value of the holding at any point is the
product of the number of shares times the share price. Money deals with this
quite well if the funds are publicly traded; less well for private funds
that it can't readily get share/unit values for.

- quote -

It won't. It will effect the balance in the Investment Cash Account. Just
like adjusting, say, a checking account balance. Say you have checkinc and a
savings account. You make lots of transfers between one and the other. When
you adjust the balance of one or the other account, that transfer history
doesn't change.

A working assumption here is that you will somehow, even via the Account
Summary Update, teach Money about Investements you hold in the plan. The
Payheck, properly setup to account for money transferring to the plan, just
transfers the money to the Investment Cash Account. Once it's there, the
cash is used to buy Investments. The value of the 401(k) is, at any time,
the sum of the cash not invested yet, and the sum of the product of the
number of shares of each investment times its share value.

- quote -

If you do as I recommended and account for the contributions, you will have
solved the first part of the puzzle. If you don't want to deal with the
investment activity directly, then using the Account Summary Update to tell
Money the information off your statements (cash balance, and value and
number of units/shares of each investment held) followed by the Money
reporting tools for an investment account will solve the second part of the
puzzle.

- quote -

I think you need to research the investment options in your plan and make
better choices--assuming your plan actually offers better choices. My
account is up 5.7% on the year (I had to back into this since the goofy plan
reports "personal invesment performance" by comparing closing balance to
opening balance without taking out contributions!). My wife's is up 5.6%. If
you have a savings account that's annually yielding 20%+, I'd love to hear
about it.

- quote -

So, you have this free money. Now you need to figure out how to make it
perform better.....

I guess I don’t feel so bad about not being able to do this myself. I thought
I was missing something but it seems Microsoft has some work to do.
I don’t know when my 401k purchases shares etc. Every paycheck the shares I
own go up, but the value could go up and down daily. If I just adjust the
“Contributions” in the Account Summary, how will this affect each record
(Paycheck Transaction)? I just want to know how much I contributed, my
company contributed & if my 401k is losing money. Honestly I’m earning more
in my online savings account than my 401k. The only problem with that is I
wouldn’t get the company match if I didn’t contribute.


"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

1) Transfer the total contribution amount(s) to the 401k Investment Cash
Account. Account for employer contributions and 401k loan repayments as
required. For how to do employer contributions, see
http://umpmfaq.info/faqdb.php?q=14.

2) Schedule a "Bill" for the 401k Investment Cash Account split into
multiple Buy Investment/CD transactions, matching your investment elections
for all of your 401k funds. (I know, scheduling a "Bill" split into
"investment purchases" seems odd. But it works. And there isn't any other
way to schedule all the buys one transaction. Goofy, I know. But I didn't
design it.) Schedule this according to the way your plan works. Mine invests
the money one week after it comes out of my paycheck.

3) Enter the scheduled transaction with the buys when it comes due.

The only real issue is how to value the transactions. (I.e., how many shares
your x$ bought.) There is no one answer to this. You can wait for the
statement and edit the transactions. You can use $1 shares for the
non-market funds. You can look up quotes on http://finance.yahoo.com and use
them to enter the market traded stuff. You can.........

If this sounds like too much work, just get the statements, go to Investment
Account Summary and use the Update Account link at the bottom of the page.

"L" <L[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
newsD21CCDA-DEAE-4DC7-81B4-A546B23C2696[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

I see a lot of 401k questions posted but none that seem to help me, so I
apologize in advance if this has already been answered.

I have my paychecks transferring my 401k Contribution & company match to my
401k Investment account. My balance only shows those totals. Each paycheck
some stock & shares of other funds are automatically purchased, publicly
traded and not. My problem is I can't get electronic downloads of the
transactions and their market value. How should I handle those investment
transactions? If I just add them & update them my total will be doubled (Plus
Market Change) because of my paycheck contributions. I guess what I need is
my 401k investment transactions minus my paycheck contributions for the
number to be accurate.
Does anyone have any recommendations?
L