Comments below.

"Christoph" <jcboget.no_spam[at]spam_trap.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Ohxbo2nIGHA.3904[at]TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
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This example doesn't add up. 3597.77 + 377.66 - 62.86 = 3912.57 <> 3914.57.

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First issue: do you know that the real world transaction was one Buy at the
end of the period for the period ending price? If you do not know this, then
you should not go trying to entrer it that way. Back to my example. IF I had
10 shares worth $100 and now I have 20 shares worth $300, it does not mean,
by definition, that those 10 shares cost $20 per share. They could have cost
$11 per share or $110 and then the share price went up to $15 the next day.
Or they may have cost $50 per share or $500 and then the share price went
down to $15 the day before the period ended.

One way to *back into* an average share price--that may or may not reflect
what really happened and may mislead performance but will keep things in
balance--is to enter a Buy for the difference in number of shares for a
total amount that is the dollar amount contributed. Let Money figure the
price per share. Do not enter the price per share. In your case, this would
be a Buy of 21.512 shares for a total amount of 377.66. Let Money calculate
the share price. (Hint: the answer will be something like 17.55, not your
17.46. You bought these shares for more than they are now worth. Telling
Money you bought them for what they are now worth is why you can't get it to
add up.)

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In example 1, all you need to do is tell Money that the share price is now
29.61. That's done in Investment Price History. (Ignoring, for this purpose,
things like 401k Manager.) Money tracks investments in terms of the share
balance. That's what it saves. It calculates and presents to you but
generally does not store market values for these shares by multiplying the
share balance times the most recent share price it knows about. You do not
record a loss transaction. (Last time you told Money that your 368.626 were
worth 30.54 per share, from this Money can figure out they were worth a
total of 11257.84. This time you told Money that your 368.626 were worth
29.61 per share, from this Money can figure out they were worth a total of
10915.01.) But if you sell all of the shares for this new lower price, then
Money will be *able to figure out* that you sold them for a loss. You don't
tell it the *loss* explicitly as a transaction. It figures this out from the
total of what you paid for the 368.626 share being more than the the
transaaction of 10915.01 you were able to sell them for.

401(k) manager is supposedly doing these same things under the covers. If
you tell it that your statement reports 368.626 shares worth 10915.01, it
figures and stores a price and does nothing with shares since it knows those
haven't changed. I qualify this as "supposedly" because my experience with
410(k) Manager over time has indicated that it's broken and has been so for
many versions. I cannot speak for recent versions, but others have reported
similar experiences.

Accurately tracking a 401(k) with real transactions rather than adjustments
to balance requires you to go and understand the mechanics of the plan. For
instance, if your buys are on the 15th of each month but your statements are
at the end of every other month, trying to assign the Buy transactions to
the end of every other month at the share price appropriate for the end of
every month won't work. You need the information from the 15th of each month
to accurately record the Buys.

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Ok, let me be a bit more specific. Here are two examples that illustrative
of the two questions I'm asking in this thread.

Example 1:

Beginning Balance as of 1/1/05: 11257.84
Contributions: 0
Losses: 342.83
Share price as of 3/31/05: 29.61
# shares as of 1/1/05: 368.626
# shares as of 3/31/05: 368.626
# shares purchased this period: 0
Ending balance as of 3/31/05: 10915.01

Example 2:

Beginning Balance as of 1/1/05: 3597.77
Contributions: 377.66
Losses: 62.86
Share price as of 3/31/05: 17.46
# shares as of 1/1/05: 202.690
# shares as of 3/31/05: 224.202
# shares purchased this period: 21.512
Ending balance as of 3/31/05: 3914.57

Ok, let's start with example 2. Entering the transaction into the register,
I set it up as a 'Buy'. In the quantity field, I enter 21.512. In the
price field, I enter 17.46. Money calculates the total cost for me (or, if
I do it myself, gives me an error when I try to finish entering the
transaction) and shows a value of (17.46 * 21.512=) 375.59952. Fine.
However, 3597.77 + 375.59952 = 3973.36952, which is a difference of 58.79952
from my actual ending balance. So there is some kind of accounting
mysticism in there that I am just not grokking. There has to be a way I can
enter this transaction so that everything adds up, which would include
losses incurred during the statement period.

Now, let's look at example 1. There are no shares being purchased during
the statement period but my ending balance is less than my starting balance.
Do I need to record this at all as some sort of transaction? If so, how?

I apologize if I'm being exasperating with my possibly stupid questions
(likely due to my misunderstanding of the whole process; I'm certainly no
accountant) but I really do appreciate all the help everyone is trying to
give!

thnx,
Christoph

I think there's a lot you are missing, but I'm not at all clear on what that
all is.

IF your # shares was correct at the beginning of period, AND the number of
shares you added in the period was correct, THEN the number of shares you
have at the end of the period should be correct. a+b=c. There's one
solution.

IF you reflect the right share price at the end of the period, THEN correct
# of shares * correct price per share WILL = correct current market value.
a*b=c. Again, one solution.

IF you cannot get # shares in Money * share value in Money to equal the
statement reported balance, I'd say you ought to look into whether the #
shares in Money and the share price in Money match the shares and price on
the statement. This is 5th grade math. Unless your file is corrupt or you
are not looking at the right stuff in Money (or are looking at "as of today"
value not as of the statement date or...) this is straightforward stuff.

You CANNOT determine the share price for the buys in the period by (End
value - Begin Value) / (End Share Qty - Begin Share Qty). Or, if you do,
your cost basis and cash balance won't match anything and your investment
gains won't be calculate correctly, either. IF I had 10 shares worth $100
and now I have 20 shares worth $300, it does not mean, by definition, that
those 10 shares cost $20 per share. They could have cost $11 per share or
$110 and then the share price went up to $15 the next day. Or they may have
cost $50 per share or $500 and then the share price went down to $15 the day
before the period ended. Obviously these are very different performance and
cash scenarios. The only exception to this rule is if all of the buys in the
period are done on the last day/at the price used to value the position on
the statement.

IF you cannot track buys with accurate prices at the time of the buy
transactions, then skip trying to account for the cash going to the buys and
skip worrying about performance reporting. Track share balance without
regard to how it got there, track cash balance and just make money go away
to get the balance right, and update price per share periodically to get an
accurate money value.

Factoring in losses when you enter a buy transaction? Huh? Your going to
have to explain the concept before I can answer the question.

"Christoph Boget" <jcboget[at]yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%23vh16niIGHA.2680[at]TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
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Here's a parallel question. For one of the funds on my 401k statement, the
( beginning balance + contributions - losses ) = ending balance. That's all
well and good. However, the ( number of shares as of * share price as of )
<> ending balance.

If I enter in just the quantity of shares (determined by the difference in
total shares from the before and after statement) and the total price
(determined by same mechanism as above) then the share price is
automatically calculated for me but that calculated price is incorrect. If
I enter in the quantity of shares and the share price, then the total price
is off by the amount of the losses I don't want to just keep the incorrect
share price because it'll just throw off the reports. I don't want to just
let it calculate the total because it's incorrect. So there has to be
something I'm missing. How can I factor in the losses when I record an
actual buy transaction?

thnx,
Christoph

In microsoft.public.money, Christoph Boget wrote:

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Try Portfolio-> UpdatePrices-> UpdatePricesManually

Money only records the loss when you realize the loss--i.e., when you sell
the investment for less than you paid for it.

If you want to reflect the reduced value of your investment, update the
share price and look in the Portfolio for its market value.

"Christoph Boget" <jcboget[at]yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OFwUSBiIGHA.516[at]TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
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I've looked in the help and also on Google but wasn't able to find an answer
for this.
How do you enter a transaction into the 'Investment Transactions' register
to account for a loss only. The number of shares hasn't changed, only the
aggregate value of all the shares. I don't see how I can do this. Can
anyone point to a resource that describes how something like this is done?

thnx,
Christoph