You guys are great! I don't know how you find the time to keep up with
these groups and offer such valuable information.

I think that clears everything up for me. The fact that the "TRANSFER"
transaction form doesn't specifically identify any of the fields as a
"Category" was really throwing me for a loop. It didn't occur to me
that the "From: " and "To: " implied a category/subcat. Similarly, I
didn't realize that changing the From and/or To was effectively
changing the categorization. FYI, I did toggle "Show Transaction
Forms" on two transactions that were showing up differently and the
category is in fact the same.

Just to complicate things further, I've noticed that some of my
transfers also show up as negative amounts on the "DEPOSIT" Transaction
Form in the source account. So, Money is apparently using THREE
different ways of displaying the same end result within the Transaction
Forms. The funny thing is, I know I didn't enter the transactions in
this manner.

Dick, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said: "This is a
good example of trying to make it "simple" and "easy to use" ends up
making it a lot more complicated than it needs to be." I have yet to
verify that these anomolies don't surface in any of the reports, Budget
Planner, etc. but I haven't noticed any problems at first glance and I
suspect you're absolutely right.

Thanks again!

At first I wasn't paying attention to this thread because I didn't begin to
understand the distinction you were drawing. I didn't get that your issue
was stemming from Transaction Forms. (I don't use Transaction Forms. They
don't seem to add any value at all and just get in the way and mask what's
really important in the database. YMMV.)

I haven't tested this and am not in a position to do so here. That having
been said, my first reaction is surprise that Money would store which
transaction form was used to enter a transaction that--in the underlying
scheme of things and for all intents and purposes besides the Transaction
Forms themselves--ends up identical. No wonder the files grow so large. Of
course, it seems odd to me that they offer two different ways to get to the
same end result. But when I think about it a minute, it seems in family with
other goofy things Money does to hide the underlying simplicity of the whole
thing and try to protect users from having to spend a few brain cells to
understand what's going on. This is a good example of trying to make it
"simple" and "easy to use" ends up making it a lot more complicated than it
needs to be.

I don't understand what you mean when you say "one way shows that it is
categorized, the other doesn't". The TRANSFER TAB implies a "categorization"
of TRANSFER. A Transfer Tab with a To: <X Acct> and a Withdrawal Tab with a
Transfer:<X Acct> are the exact same thing in terms of how Money ***accounts
for the money flow***. Turn off Transaction Forms--which are just a User
Interface anyway--and look at the two transactions as they are stored in the
register. Does the category somehow change? I can't verify at the moment,
but I don't think it does. (I vaguely recall verifying that before posting
the post you quote.) Go to any of the reports, Budget Planner, Forecast Cash
Flow or other place in Money where past transactions are used to help you
manage your money--as opposed to look at the register. Can you tell the
difference in any of these other places?

I also don't understand "One instance where I see it making a difference is
if you make a mistake when entering a transfer (i.e. to the wrong account).
If it is entered as a transfer category, it is easy to change. If you enter
it using the "Transfer" transaction form, it isn't as easy to change." Why
can't you go the To: pulldown on the Transfer form and just change the
target account? Again, at the moment, I can't test this, and I only rarely
play with Transaction Forms. It may be a lot harder than this. If it is,
that's yet another reason why I'd recommend not using Transaction Forms.

At any rate, you came asking, I think, what's the difference between a
[Withdrawal Transaction Form, Common Withdrawal, Transfer to:<X Acct> ]
transaction and a [Transfer Transaction Form, To: <X Acct> ] transaction? The
answer I would give is which form it shows up on in the future if you use
Transaction Forms. For other purposes in Money there is no difference
whatsoever. It's kinda like asking what the difference to the bank is if you
use red, green, or blue check stock. You may like blue more than green or
red, but they really couldn't care less.

"Scoop" <imscoop22[at]gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137629098.978020.116400[at]g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

I found another post where someone else notice what I am referring to.
Dick Watson stated the following in a respons:

"Well, I guess what I really mean is make it a Transfer:Credit Card
Acct and
it really doesn't matter how you do it. Withdrawal means nothing in the
big
picture. Transfer:Credit Card Acct means everything. What transaction
form
you used is lost forever once the category is set to Transfer:Credit
Card
Acct. That's ALL that is stored. The Transfer tab stores that.
Withdrawal
with a category Transfer:Credit Card Acct stores it as well."

In terms of the end RESULT/implications for reports, etc. the above may
be true but the transaction can always be viewed the way it was
entered. One way shows that it is categorized, the other doesn't. So,
in one regard, the transaction form use isn't lost forever and DOES
make a difference, as insignificant as it may be.

One instance where I see it making a difference is if you make a
mistake when entering a transfer (i.e. to the wrong account). If it is
entered as a transfer category, it is easy to change. If you enter it
using the "Transfer" transaction form, it isn't as easy to change. Or,
so it seems to me...

In microsoft.public.money, Scoop wrote:

- quote -

I think you are doing a good job of describing the difference. I
suggest you pick your favorite and go with it.

- quote -

I tried that and it didn't help. I understand that the category IS a
transfer and the sub cat is the account. What I don't understand is
the difference between the "Transfer" TAB and the "Withdrawal" that is
categorized as a transfer. I think they show up the same in reports,
etc. but they ARE different in the register. The way I just described
it is clear when using transaction forms but it also shows up when not
using transaction forms.

Without the transaction forms, it is the difference between the
selecting the following on the "Common Transations" button:

Common Transactions > Withdrawal > Credit Card Payment > To
[nameofaccount]
and...
Common Transactions > Transfer > To [nameofaccount]

The difference can't be the same as the difference between the two
SPECIAL categories (Credit Card Pay... and Transfer:...) because when
you enter a "Transfer" as opposed to a "Withdrawal" that is categorized
as a transfer (not an expense), you don't even have the option of
entering a category.

Am I doing a better job of describing my confusion?

In microsoft.public.money, Scoop wrote:

- quote -

That confusion may go away if you clear
Tools-> Options-> UseASingleListForCategories....



- quote -

With separate Category and Subcategory, the Subcategory is the other
account.

Thanks Cal!

I am using M04 so I don't think I have the expense category that you
mention. Both the options I listed previously are listed under
SPECIAL.

I tried turning off the transaction form as you suggested and it
actually confused me more. I entered a credit card payment using one
of the SPECIAL categories. I then turned on the transaction forms and
looked at the transaction I had just entered. It showed up on the
"Transfer" tab without anywhere to even enter a category.

In microsoft.public.money, Scoop wrote:

- quote -

I don't use "transaction forms". You might try turning transaction
forms off for a bit, and look at the category information to see the
distinction.

You want to use the category under SPECIAL in the drop-down list.
You would probably better off to delete the category under the
EXPENSE heading.

In my previous post, Taylor replied:

"The "Transfer" in money is a double entry bookeeping entry that debits
your
checking account and credits the credit card account. One entry
appears in
both. This entry is automatically done when you make a bill payment of
the
credit card. By making a manual entry and applying a category, which
is
just a field label, you are making a redundant entry. I recommend you
don't
do the manual entry."

Thank you, Taylor! I think I understand the difference between a
"Transfer" and the "Transfer: <Acccount name> " category as you describe
it but this is the first time I've ever noticed the distinction. I
have assumed that when I categorize a credit card payments as either
one of the following a "Transfer" was being entered.

1. Transfer: <AccountName> ...or
2. Credit Card Payment: <CreditCardName
I have assumed this b/c doing so DOES create a corresponding
transaction in the "to" account.

In reviewing the FAQ and other posts, it seems that most of the pros
use and recommend one of the two options above (which show up on the
"Credit" tab not the "Transfer" tab). Now I'm really confused...

I reposted this b/c of the spam/junk that was used as a reply to my
original post...

I have a credit card account and I have two payment transactions. One
was downloaded and categorized, the other entered manually. The one
entered manually shows up as a "Transfer" (i.e. if you select the
transaction, the Transfer tab is highlighted and there are "To" and
"From" fields). In the downloaded transaction, I categorized it as a
"Transfer: <Account Name> ". This information shows up on the "Credit"
tab in the register. Can someone explain to me what the difference is
and which is the best way to handle these types of transactions
(credit card payments).