You keep trying to correct me on this and I'm too dense to get it. Go
figure.

Hey, Brian: Listen to Chris on this. I'm sure he's right. Loan Payments are,
apparently, an exception to the rule of how this works elsewhere.

"Chris Cowles" <NoSpam[at]For.me> wrote in message
news:eUtyAApKFHA.2640[at]TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
- quote -

Yes, it will, if the loan payment is made from a budget account. You cannot
control that and should not put the escrow account in the budget. Future
expenditures from it will be counted as expenses, in effect double-counting
the escrow portion.

Yes, Money's BP should treat the escrow portion as a transfer/cash flow, but
it doesn't and never has.
--
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL



"BPieslak" <BPieslak[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0EF64887-F32B-407E-9DE8-32A73EE8C9D9[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Maybe too fancy by half. See comments inline below.

"BPieslak" <BPieslak[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0EF64887-F32B-407E-9DE8-32A73EE8C9D9[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

The transfers to the escrow account are not, strictly speaking, subject to
budgeting since they make you neither richer nor poorer. (At least that's
the theory. The escrow account is a little wierd since while it's still
technically your money till they spend it for you, good luck actually
getting at it.) If you want this to be reflected in your budget, you have
two choices:

a) schedule transactions for (to implicitly budget), or explicitly budget,
the expenses that the escrow account will incur,
b) set the escrow account "out of budget" in its details.

In the former case, these expenses will now be budgeted for. In the latter
case, the money moved there will show in BP in the "Transfer out of budget"
section.

- quote -

I disagree that the Roth IRA should be treated as an expense, not a
Transfer. Putting money there does not make you poorer, hence it is not an
expense.

Basic drill:

1) Set the Roth investment account as "retirement account" and "out of
budget."
2) Money will probably want an associated cash account. (There's a way
around this, but I'm mentally drawing a blank right now what it is. Probably
not tellin it that it's an IRA.) Depending on the IRA ("Brokerage" vs.
"Mutual Fund", for instance) having the cash account there is a good thing.
3) If (cash account) Then
transfer money to cash account
enter Buy Investment/CD purchases in the investment cash account.
Set the shares purchased/transaction value to the number from the
statement/confirm. Let Money compute share price.
Else
enter Buy Investment/CD purchases directly in the account where the
money for the Roth came from. Set the shares purchased/transaction value to
the number from the statement/confirm. Let Money compute share price.
EndIf

Money should reflect the IRA transfers/buys as "transfers out of budget."

Think of "transfers out of budget" as Money's way to make sure that you see
the difference between Income and Expense as a very small number that hides
the amount you are really saving--"transfers out of budget" to things like
IRAs--so you don't think it's money there just for the purpose of spending.
Classical budgeting lets positive (Income - Expense) be available for
savings and doesn't "budget" the savings. Money recognizes the human factors
fallacy in this (we see that $10k per month income less that $7k per month
expense as an excuse to blow the other $3k) and overcomes it with "transfers
out of budget." $10k per month income minus $7k per month expense minus
$2,990 transfer out looks like our budget is in balance with $10 left over.

- quote -

Dick,
Thanks for the clarification. I think I am definitely mixing metaphors
on tracking some things as Expense Categories and some things as Accounts.
If I set up a scheduled "bill" / transaction for transferring $$ from my
Checking account into my Escrow cash account, will that be automatically
included in my BP? I think that's the step I'm missing.

I also realized that I was incorrectly using my RothIRA account &
"transfers". I'm not actually "transferring" cash into my Roth IRA. I
should be tracking my Roth IRA contributions as an expense category, and then
*within* my Roth IRA account, I should be entering in my fund purchases that
I receive in my statements from my broker.
Makes total sense now. I think I was trying to be a bit too fancy with
"transfers" & accounts.

Thank you very much!
Brian

"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

Mortgage Escrow sounds like an expense category. If this is what you want,
it will work. If, OTOH, you have/want to have a cash account setup to track
the escrow, Transfer:[name of cash acct] is what you want. Then you can
track the actual expenses with transactions in that account. This is what I
meant by "schedule the expenses it will pay." Setup transactions/scheduled
bills for these expenses as for any other.

There are three basic kinds of transactions: Income (you get richer) Expense
(you get poorer) and Transfer (you don't get richer or poorer, think of it
as taking money from you right pocket and putting it in your left pocket).
Every transaction in a non-investment account is one of these or a
derivative like Loan Payment.

Understanding that will help you understand why you don't budget the Roth
IRA transfer. The transfer makes you neither richer nor poorer. BP is really
all about tracking things that make you richer or poorer. If the Roth
account is set "out of budget" (in Details again) then it should show up as
a transfer out of budget, reducing the amount of Income available to offset
the Expenses. BP can also answer whether your Income less your transfers out
(the Roth) and debt service (the Loan Payment) is greater than your
expenses.

"BPieslak" <BPieslak[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:6F4F48C4-5652-4446-B65A-57E7A81D381E[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Dick,
Sorry for the delayed response.

1.) I believe I have the "Include this account in the budget planner"
checked. What I can't seem to figure out is how to
"schedule the expenses it will pay". I tried using the Help, and it told me
about assigning cash flow transactions to accounts. I have set it up so that
my "Mortgage Escrow" category is assigned to my "Escrow" account.
In my Checking Account Ledger, am I supposed to use the "Mortgage Escrow"
category and call it a Withdrawl? Or am I supposed to call it a "Transfer to
Escrow"?
Basically, I'm having trouble seeing how to relate transfers between
accounts to assigned categories.
And not to get off the topic of "budgeting for your Mortgage", but I've
now realized that I face the same problem with budgeting my Roth IRA
contributions, since those transactions in my Checking Account Ledger are
actually Transfers into my Roth IRA account.

2.) To what Chris Watson said, I'm seeing the same thing. I see 100% of my
loan payment in the Debt section of my BP now.
Again, not to get too far off topic, but do you know if Money 2005 has
any upgraded features with the DRP?

Thanks a lot!
Brian

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko[at]mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:uYZSPeCKFHA.1392[at]TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
- quote -

Yes.

- quote -

I believe that is true. Simple workaround is to exclude the escrow account
from the budget.

I've never escrowed. You are saying that 100% of the loan payment
transaction is in the Debt section of BP? Then what happens if you have the
transactions that come out of the escrow scheduled? To they show up as
expenses accruing in the budget?

"Chris Cowles" <NoSpam[at]For.me> wrote in message
news:eq%23hPqBKFHA.1340[at]TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
- quote -

BP includes the total amount of the loan, regardless of whether the escrow
portions are expensed or accrued.
--
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL


"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko[at]mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:efFONd9JFHA.3552[at]TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
- quote -

1) There is a setting, in account details, that controls this. If it's "in"
budget, then you will need to schedule the expenses it will pay.

2) DRP SHOULD recognize that the principal component of your mortgage
payments exists and should not consider it available to paydown DRP-managed
debt. I'd not set the mortgage loan as one managed by DRP for all of these
kinds of reasons.

"BPieslak" <BPieslak[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4431AC6A-B045-4074-B582-282575A44D2A[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

Thanks for the reply. 2 follow up questions:

1.) How do I set up my Escrow account to be included in my BP?
I don't have "Transfer to : Mortgage Escrow" available as an expense
category within my BP.

2.) wouldn't including the Principle Transfer skew my Debt Reduction Plan
(DRP)? I'm already using my DRP for paying off short-term debt on credit
cards. So I can't use the same "when would you like to be out of debt" Date
with the Prinicple Transfer, since I'm not trying to pay off my Mortgage by
the same date I'm trying to pay off my credit cards.

Thanks,
Brian

"Dick Watson" wrote:

- quote -

BP should show the Principal Transfer portion under the Debt section. The
principal transfers aren't treated as an Expense in BP since it's just
repaying an expense you incurred the day you bought the property. The new
expenses, interest and taxes/insurance scheduled to be paid from the escrow
account, will show up as Expenses, assuming the escrow account is setup to
be included in BP. If it's not, then the Transfer to the escrow account
should show up in the Transfer out of Budget Accounts section.

"BPieslak" <BPieslak[at]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:04094C29-6137-40E7-97CA-2F6BDC6FAA2E[at]microsoft.com...
- quote -

I am using Money 2004.
I used to track my Mortgage as just a Bill that I paid like any other. Now
I've started actually managing my Mortgage by creating a Mortgage account.
I'm all set up with making payments to my Mortgage account with paying
Principle, Loa Interest, and Escrow.

Here's how I pay my Mortgage:
1.) go to the Account List and click on my Mortgage.
2.) click on "New" on the Loan Payment section [at] the bottom
3.) choose the "Make a regular loan payment" option
4.) In the "Edit Transaction" window the appears, I split the transaction &
entering in all of the dollar values for each category. The 3 categories I
end up using are:
a.) Principle Transfer: Mortgage
b.) Loan: Mortgage Interest
c.) Transfer to Escrow Account

What I can't seem to figure out is how to include my Budget in my Mortgage.
I *can* include the Loan Interest & the Escrow, since that's just a Loan
Category & an account Transfer. I can't seem find the "Principle Transfer"
category when Budgetting my Expenses.
Should I be trying to budget each individual portion of the Mortgage
payment? or just the entire amount?
In my Checking Account Ledger, I see "Loan Payment : Mortgage" listed as the
Category...but I can't find that in my Category list either. "Loan Payment"
is a reserved title in Money, so I can't create it either. should I change
the category of the transaction in my Checking Account ledger to something
like "Bill: Mortgage Payment" ?

THanks for the Help.