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#29
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| On 2008-10-21, honda.lioness[at]gmail.com <honda.lioness[at]gmail.com> wrote: - quote - > Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote:
There are not many choices for 1.> Re investing in stocks regularly a la Jeremy Siegel's _Stocks for the > Long Run_-- > > The concept of dollar cost averaging is a result of a misunderstanding > > of the exact meaning of return and capital. > > > Intro > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging > > > Criticism by Constantinides (I attended his options class at U of Chicago) > > > http://web.archive.org/web/200303190....uchicago.edu/... > By injecting this paper you seem to be conflating the answers to two > very different questions, namely: > 1. How should one invest money received in small sums over a long time > (e.g. small sums from one's employment income)? > 2. How should one invest money received as a lump sum (e.gl. an > inheritance)? > DCA is advisable for 1. but not necessarily for 2. There was an idea, which was incorrect, that dollar cost averaging a lump sum is somehow better than investing all of it at once. It was mistaken. As for a person who is making monthly savings, what he is doing is "investing money as soon as it is available". The return from that would be the same as the return of the market, if properly calculated. It is not any better, or worse. - quote - > http://www.moneychimp.com/features/dollar_cost.htm may clarify.
Yep, that's what he is advocating.> Siegel's counsel in _Stocks for the Long Run_ concerns question 1. As > long as one has a long timeframe, he advocates buying index funds at > the prevailing market rate and reinvesting dividends. i ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#28
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| Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote: Re investing in stocks regularly a la Jeremy Siegel's _Stocks for the Long Run_-- - quote - > The concept of dollar cost averaging is a result of a misunderstanding
By injecting this paper you seem to be conflating the answers to two> of the exact meaning of return and capital. > Intro > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging > Criticism by Constantinides (I attended his options class at U of Chicago) > http://web.archive.org/web/200303190....uchicago.edu/... very different questions, namely: 1. How should one invest money received in small sums over a long time (e.g. small sums from one's employment income)? 2. How should one invest money received as a lump sum (e.gl. an inheritance)? DCA is advisable for 1. but not necessarily for 2. http://www.moneychimp.com/features/dollar_cost.htm may clarify. Siegel's counsel in _Stocks for the Long Run_ concerns question 1. As long as one has a long timeframe, he advocates buying index funds at the prevailing market rate and reinvesting dividends. To answer your question ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#27
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| Augustine wrote: - quote - > On Oct 21, 11:55*am, "Default User" <defaultuse...[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
Agreed, I should have said "overall benefit", rather than not of any> > > You mean "dollar-cost averaging"? It sounds good at first, but it > > hasn't historically proven to be of any benefit. > Not quite. It has actually been proven to be of at least some > benefit, if not beneficial most of the time. > But I'd appreciate if you could provide some rationale for your > statement. benefit. For the most part, people don't have lump sums to invest anyway. Brian ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#26
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| On Oct 21, 11:55*am, "Default User" <defaultuse...[at]yahoo.com> wrote: - quote - > You mean "dollar-cost averaging"? It sounds good at first, but it
Not quite. It has actually been proven to be of at least some> hasn't historically proven to be of any benefit. benefit, if not beneficial most of the time. But I'd appreciate if you could provide some rationale for your statement. TIA ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#25
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| On 2008-10-21, anoop <ghanwani[at]gmail.com> wrote: - quote - > On Oct 21, 9:55*am, "Default User" <defaultuse...[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
The concept of dollar cost averaging is a result of a misunderstanding> > You mean "dollar-cost averaging"? It sounds good at first, but it > > hasn't historically proven to be of any benefit. > This is the first time I'm seeing someone say there's no benefit to > doing dollar-cost averaging. Is there any study you can point to? of the exact meaning of return and capital. Intro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging Criticism by Constantinides (I attended his options class at U of Chicago) http://web.archive.org/web/200303190.../JFQA_1979.pdf -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#24
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| On Oct 21, 9:55*am, "Default User" <defaultuse...[at]yahoo.com> wrote: - quote - > You mean "dollar-cost averaging"? It sounds good at first, but it
This is the first time I'm seeing someone say there's no benefit to> hasn't historically proven to be of any benefit. doing dollar-cost averaging. Is there any study you can point to? Anoop ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#23
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| Augustine wrote: - quote - > On Oct 21, 8:34*am, Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote:
You mean "dollar-cost averaging"? It sounds good at first, but it> > > > I do not consider this the main theme of Siegel's books. Instead, > > > his focus is on buying index funds and holding for the long run. > > > But buying at what price? > Dollar-averaging is the answer. hasn't historically proven to be of any benefit. Brian ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#22
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| On Oct 21, 8:34*am, Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote: - quote - > > I do not consider this the main theme of Siegel's books. Instead, his
Dollar-averaging is the answer.> > focus is on buying index funds and holding for the long run. > But buying at what price? HTH ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#21
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| On 2008-10-21, Pierre Asselin <pa[at]see.signature.invalid> wrote: - quote - > Igor Chudov <ichudov[at]algebra.com> wrote:
They are all worth reading. The printed form was very nice, though.> > Berkshire used to sell a compendium of Buffett's letters to > > shareholders, which was a great and very useful reading, as far as I > > am concerned. > They're online now. http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/letters.html -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#20
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| On 2008-10-20, honda.lioness[at]gmail.com <honda.lioness[at]gmail.com> wrote: - quote - > Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote:
But buying at what price?> On Jeremy Siegel -- > > Personally, I never trusted the "buy stocks at any price" theory, > > especially when it is believed by too many people. > I do not consider this the main theme of Siegel's books. Instead, his > focus is on buying index funds and holding for the long run. - quote - > In particular I like how he emphasizes the importance of reinvesting > dividends through thick and thin. We cannot time the market, and at > times like today by continuing to buy stocks we get the triple > compounding effect of dividends generally increasing over time; > buying more shares because they are at bargain prices; appreciating > as stock prices do over the long run. - quote - > Siegel has a more recent book out, as I recall, that updates or adds
This Siegel seems to be very interested in wringing every possible> to _Stocks for the Long Run_. > But a disclaimer is appropriate. Siegel is now an advisor of a major > index yada fund company, wisdomtree.com . dollar out of his fame. I personally would not trust him too much. I will read his book, however. i ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#19
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| Igor Chudov <ichudov[at]algebra.com> wrote: - quote - > Berkshire used to sell a compendium of Buffett's letters to
They're online now. http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/letters.html> shareholders, which was a great and very useful reading, as far as I > am concerned. ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#18
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| Igor Chudov <ichudov[at]algebra.com> writes: - quote - > On 2008-10-20, dapperdobbs <GeorgeCFL[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
The Berkshire Hathaway quarterly and annual reports going> > "Stocks for the Long Run" was written by Jeremy Siegel. > > "Security Analysis" is Ben Graham, David L. Dodd, & Sidney Cottle. > > Warren E. Buffett was Ben Graham's student. > Berkshire used to sell a compendium of Buffett's letters to > shareholders, which was a great and very useful reading, as far as I > am concerned. back to 1995 are all online in either html or pdf format at <http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/reports.html Buffett's annual Letters to the Shareholders are also all online, going back to 1977: <http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/letters.html Moreover, Buffett makes a point of releasing these documents each year over a weekend, rather than during the trading week. Those letters are a goldmine. -- Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed. No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow? http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#17
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| Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote: On Jeremy Siegel -- - quote - > Personally, I never trusted the "buy stocks at any price" theory,
I do not consider this the main theme of Siegel's books. Instead, his> especially when it is believed by too many people. focus is on buying index funds and holding for the long run. In particular I like how he emphasizes the importance of reinvesting dividends through thick and thin. We cannot time the market, and at times like today by continuing to buy stocks we get the triple compounding effect of dividends generally increasing over time; buying more shares because they are at bargain prices; appreciating as stock prices do over the long run. Siegel has a more recent book out, as I recall, that updates or adds to _Stocks for the Long Run_. But a disclaimer is appropriate. Siegel is now an advisor of a major index yada fund company, wisdomtree.com . ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#16
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| On 2008-10-20, dapperdobbs <GeorgeCFL[at]hotmail.com> wrote: - quote - > "Stocks for the Long Run" was written by Jeremy Siegel.
Berkshire used to sell a compendium of Buffett's letters to> "Security Analysis" is Ben Graham, David L. Dodd, & Sidney Cottle. > Warren E. Buffett was Ben Graham's student. shareholders, which was a great and very useful reading, as far as I am concerned. i ======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT: Thank you for trimming the previous post and for being succinct. ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#15
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| "Stocks for the Long Run" was written by Jeremy Siegel. "Security Analysis" is Ben Graham, David L. Dodd, & Sidney Cottle. Warren E. Buffett was Ben Graham's student. ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#14
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| On 2008-10-20, PeterL <po.ning[at]gmail.com> wrote: - quote - > On Oct 20, 2:05*am, Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote:
Stocks for the long run.> > On 2008-10-19, honda.lion...[at]gmail.com <honda.lion...[at]gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote: > > > > So far Buffett has been right about more or less everything. > > > > He is celebrated as a messiah, I think because this sells copy for the > > > media. > > > > The truth is he has made some pretty large mistakes. To his credit, > > > and perhaps what makes him pretty successful, is that he tries to > > > admit his mistakes. He may be right that this is a good time to buy. > > > Yet many are saying this. I am not impressed when it comes out of > > > Buffett's mouth too. I would put more faith in the collection of > > > sentiments expressed by Robert Shiller and Jeremy Siegel. Ultimately I > > > put the greatest faith in the realities of economies: It is human > > > nature to want to make life easier. Technologies develop as a result. > > > Plus the population grows. In the long run, betting on stocks is a bet > > > on the nature of economies. > > > I had a second look at his book. I have not read it and bought it at > > Amazon a few minutes ago. This guy's website is very insistent on > > selling, signing up people and generally self promotion, which is a > > turn off for me. > > Whose book are you talking about? - quote - > > I will read his book and will try to see if I can make any comments.
Hard to disagree.> > > Personally, I never trusted the "buy stocks at any price" theory, > > especially when it is believed by too many people. > But buy stock at the right price is an excellent theory. If anyone believes the "buy stocks at any price" theory, it becomes self defeating. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#13
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| On Oct 20, 2:05*am, Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote: - quote - > On 2008-10-19, honda.lion...[at]gmail.com <honda.lion...[at]gmail.com> wrote:
Whose book are you talking about?> > Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote: > > > So far Buffett has been right about more or less everything. > > He is celebrated as a messiah, I think because this sells copy for the > > media. > > The truth is he has made some pretty large mistakes. To his credit, > > and perhaps what makes him pretty successful, is that he tries to > > admit his mistakes. He may be right that this is a good time to buy. > > Yet many are saying this. I am not impressed when it comes out of > > Buffett's mouth too. I would put more faith in the collection of > > sentiments expressed by Robert Shiller and Jeremy Siegel. Ultimately I > > put the greatest faith in the realities of economies: It is human > > nature to want to make life easier. Technologies develop as a result. > > Plus the population grows. In the long run, betting on stocks is a bet > > on the nature of economies. > I had a second look at his book. I have not read it and bought it at > Amazon a few minutes ago. This guy's website is very insistent on > selling, signing up people and generally self promotion, which is a > turn off for me. - quote - > I will read his book and will try to see if I can make any comments. > Personally, I never trusted the "buy stocks at any price" theory, > especially when it is believed by too many people. But buy stock at the right price is an excellent theory. ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#12
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| On 2008-10-19, honda.lioness[at]gmail.com <honda.lioness[at]gmail.com> wrote: - quote - > Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote:
I had a second look at his book. I have not read it and bought it at> > So far Buffett has been right about more or less everything. > He is celebrated as a messiah, I think because this sells copy for the > media. > The truth is he has made some pretty large mistakes. To his credit, > and perhaps what makes him pretty successful, is that he tries to > admit his mistakes. He may be right that this is a good time to buy. > Yet many are saying this. I am not impressed when it comes out of > Buffett's mouth too. I would put more faith in the collection of > sentiments expressed by Robert Shiller and Jeremy Siegel. Ultimately I > put the greatest faith in the realities of economies: It is human > nature to want to make life easier. Technologies develop as a result. > Plus the population grows. In the long run, betting on stocks is a bet > on the nature of economies. Amazon a few minutes ago. This guy's website is very insistent on selling, signing up people and generally self promotion, which is a turn off for me. I will read his book and will try to see if I can make any comments. Personally, I never trusted the "buy stocks at any price" theory, especially when it is believed by too many people. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#11
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| On Oct 19, 1:00*pm, Will Trice <n...[at]monitored.net> wrote: - quote - > Not to worry, you didn't sound offensive - to me anyway. *The link B
as sarcastic (which I did not intend). Many of the great American> posted does not require a login to read the article. *It appears that > Buffett means "American" in the broadest sense: incorporated in the U.S. > * So both See's and Anerican Express would qualify. > -Will Thanks for the definition. Wanted to make sure I wasn't misinterpreted corporate names have half of their business overseas, the bulk of that half in Europe, but with increasing expansion plans for the Far East. (I did try B's link again, and got the log-in page.) Isn't it nice to have a garage sale of stocks? :-) PG, UTX, FAST, DD, IR, EMR, even D ... I've been rummaging around looking for the ones that aren't too used or broken. Just wish the seller would get those hand-scrawled pricing stickers sorted out ... XOM jumps around almost 10% a day. ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
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#10
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| On 2008-10-19, honda.lioness[at]gmail.com <honda.lioness[at]gmail.com> wrote: - quote - > Igor Chudov <ichu...[at]algebra.com> wrote:
I think that a more proper term would be "oracle".> > So far Buffett has been right about more or less everything. > He is celebrated as a messiah, I think because this sells copy for the > media. - quote - > The truth is he has made some pretty large mistakes. To his credit,
I would love to know more about what their recommendations are.> and perhaps what makes him pretty successful, is that he tries to > admit his mistakes. He may be right that this is a good time to buy. > Yet many are saying this. I am not impressed when it comes out of > Buffett's mouth too. I would put more faith in the collection of > sentiments expressed by Robert Shiller and Jeremy Siegel. Ultimately > I put the greatest faith in the realities of economies: It is human > nature to want to make life easier. Technologies develop as a > result. Plus the population grows. In the long run, betting on > stocks is a bet on the nature of economies. To me, betting on anything is a lot safer when the price is cheap, than when it is expensive. Personally, I hate losing money even more than I like making money, so I am glad that I did not lose anything in 2001 and 2008, yet. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ ------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the Newsgroup. |
| Tags |
| buffett, buying, recommends, stocks, warren |
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