"dumbstruck" <dumbstruc[at]gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4de7f81b-2142-4603-b009-8c934f7c366c[at]w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

That would be interesting. Not sure how the federal government could even
claim jurisdiction as the land transfer happened a long time before the
existence of the USA and its Constitution. Reparations, possibly, but
repatriation?

Elizabeth Richardson

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On Jun 25, 1:32*pm, dumbstruck <dumbst...[at]gmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

No feedback on how this might be handled, if your house sits on land
granted by a treaty now in question? I thought a number of years ago
there were attempts at legal reperations or repatriation of Indian
tribe land in MA. Could come up elsewhere in the future.

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Any exposure to court rulings giving back land to Indians?

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"John A. Weeks III" <john[at]johnweeks.com> wrote in message
news:john-B2F867.17491824062008[at]comcast.dca.giganews.com...
- quote -


I just spent 4 months cleaning up a title -- not on a home/personal
residence, but on an office building we *thought* we owned for the
last nine years. According to the official paperwork, we didn't own
it.

Title search *was* already done to satisfy the lender.

Title company screwed up.

It took 4 months to clean up, and we lost a locked-in
deal to sell it (it eventually sold after we cleaned
up the mess).

The good news: We had an owner's policy. Had we not
been able to obtain clear title, we would have been
made whole by the insurance carrier.

***

5% of the time seems a small chance -- but it *does*
happen and title SNAFUs are both time consuming and
expensive to clean up.

Do yourself a favor: Buy the policy.

beliavsky[at]aol.com wrote:


- quote -

The payout rate doesn't matter. What matters is that you can withstand the loss
if you self insure. The sellers may think they own the house, but are you sure
there are no unrecorded liens, easements, or other title problems? Title
searches only find recorded stuff.

There was a recent case on the news where a owner abandoned a property in the
80's. The city mowed the lawn and neglected to file a formal lien. HUD took
over the property and sold it, supposedly delivering clear title. Now the city
discovers the debt, which with interest and penalties has grown to $20,000.

HUD has no records showing that they paid the debt and the city threatened to
evict the present owners. In the end, the city waved the debt, but still...

- quote -

Exactly. You are buying protection. The question is not how much it is costing
the title company, it is whether you afford to self insure. It is unlikely, but
possible you could lose the whole $615K.

-- Doug

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On 2008-06-24 13:18:13 -0700, beliavsky[at]aol.com said:

- quote -

Another concern involves identity theft. There has been a scam going on
in British Columbia recently, whereby a criminal actually is able to
take out a mortgage on a house without the homeowner's knowledge.
Later, the homeowner has to go through a costly legal process to regain
possession of the house. As it has played out, nobody has lost their
house, but, believe it or not, some courts have actually held that the
homeowner is responsible for repayment of the bogus mortgage! At any
rate, financial advisors in these parts are stressing the importance of
getting title insurance as protection from this kind of fraud. Whether
anything like this could be an issue in the USA, I don't know.

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Elizabeth Richardson wrote:
- quote -


Here's a scenario I thought was interesting, a prior estate tax bill
that attached to the property, but which didn't see daylight until after
the houses were sold. The holding in the case is on another issue, but
I'm sure these owners were glad they bought title insurance - see First
American v. USA:
http://www.ninthcircuitopinions.com/2008/03/

-Tad

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<beliavsky[at]aol.com> wrote in message
news:dd397de2-5959-4630-b6d7-3dbb4267ecf1[at]g16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

I think you need to double check the numbers. For Massachusetts for a $615K
house Old Republic Title Insurance charges $1537.50 for lender policy only,
$2244.75 for owner policy only , but only $2419.75 for simultaneous lender
and owner policy. You will not save as much as you think with only a lender
policy.

Title insurance needs serious reform. Here in PA the Commonwealth nails
consumers by setting minimum prices for title insurance at high rates.
Consumers would be better served if states set maximum price rates for title
insurance, not minimum rates.

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<beliavsky[at]aol.com> wrote in message
news:dd397de2-5959-4630-b6d7-3dbb4267ecf1[at]g16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

The lender's policy insures only that the loan is in the first position. The
insurance isn't just that you might not have title to the property. The
owner's policy insures that you will have no loss due to unpaid taxes, or an
undisclosed encroachment, or an undisclosed right of way, or . . . The
possibility of loss is greater in those cases than that of the lender's
policy. I can't speak to whether your purchase of the policy is a good
financial decision, especially when I know nothing of the title company nor
whether the title plant is well-maintained.

Elizabeth

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In article
<dd397de2-5959-4630-b6d7-3dbb4267ecf1[at]g16g2000pri.googlegroups.com> ,
beliavsky[at]aol.com wrote:

- quote -

Think about what this is saying. It says that 5% of the time, the
title is messed up on a house such that the insurance company has
to pay out to fix the problem. Are you willing to take a 5% risk
that your $600K investment becomes worthless because it is learned
that it is sitting 4 feet left of your property line?

You would be very risk tollerant if you pass up on title insurance.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III * * * * * 612-720-2854 * * * * * *john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications * * * * * * * * * * * * http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

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I am buying a house for $615 K, with a mortgage of $415 K, in
Massachusetts. On the HUD settlement statement, the title insurance is
listed as costing $2635, with $175 being for the lender's policy and
$2460 being for the owner's policy. Of the premium, it says the law
firm retains $2108 of the premium.

I am thinking of skipping the policy and saving $2460. A title search
must already have been done to satisfy the lender, and Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_i..._profitability
says that only 4.3% of title insurance premiums are paid as claims.
Why should my policy cost more than 10 times more than that of the
lender's?

I am confident that sellers actually own the house. It's true I will
feel like an idiot if I forgo the policy and a claim arises against
the house, but with the $2460, I could I could increase the limits on
my car insurance, or make several payments on a term life insurance
policy. These types of insurance have far higher payout rates.

It's not as if the title insurer is going to do any further work
researching the title after the closing because I buy the policy. At
this point I am only buying protection, not due diligence, and the
cost seems wildly inflated.

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