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Old 06-01-2008, 02:20 PM
Mark Freeland
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: IRA 60 day psuedo loan?

"dumbstruck" <dumbstruc[at]gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0dc8d37b-a799-4f73-a58a-623c6e2aeee2[at]l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

> How practical as a loan-to-yourself is the 60 day IRA rollover grace
> period? Assuming it is for a good reason and there will be no problem
> paying it back, how blatently loan-like can you expect to push this
> loophole with most administrators?
> 1) Can you likely just put it back in the same place as it came from?
> Or must do a swap of accounts between 2 currently patronized
> administrators, for instance?


It's actually better if you put it back in the same place. You are allowed
one 60 day rollover per year _per IRA_. But if you roll the money over from
IRA-1 to IRA-2 (these are the terms used in IRS Pub 590), you "contaminate"
IRA-2, and cannot do a 60-day rollover from that account for another year as
well.

Pub 590 example: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p590/ch01.html#d0e4317

Mark Freeland
nNeEwTs[at]nyc.rr.com

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  #1  
Old 06-01-2008, 02:45 AM
Dave Dodson
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: IRA 60 day psuedo loan?

On May 31, 6:22*pm, dumbstruck <dumbst...[at]gmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

> 2) How likely can you negotiate down withholding amounts below 20% or
> whatever (I hear you can try a W4 filing or something?). I understand
> this amount has to be replaced out-of-pocket until a year-end tax
> rebate.


Unless you are subject to "backup withholding," which generally
applies only to resident aliens, there is no requirement for the
custodian to withhold any taxes from an IRA distribution. You probably
are thinking of the manaitory withholding for distributions from
401(k) accounts that are paid to you instead of being rolled over into
an IRA.

Dave

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
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Newsgroup.

 
Old 06-01-2008, 12:35 AM
John A. Weeks III
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: IRA 60 day psuedo loan?

In article
<0dc8d37b-a799-4f73-a58a-623c6e2aeee2[at]l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com> ,
dumbstruck <dumbstruc[at]gmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

> How practical as a loan-to-yourself is the 60 day IRA rollover grace
> period? Assuming it is for a good reason and there will be no problem
> paying it back, how blatently loan-like can you expect to push this
> loophole with most administrators?


I have done this several times to get cash for real estate closings.

- quote -

> 1) Can you likely just put it back in the same place as it came from?
> Or must do a swap of accounts between 2 currently patronized
> administrators, for instance?


I have always put the money back exactly where it came from. That
made the paper trail so much easier to follow, and less likely for
the IRS to think the withdrawl was taxable or the deposit was new
money.

- quote -

> 2) How likely can you negotiate down withholding amounts below 20% or
> whatever (I hear you can try a W4 filing or something?). I understand
> this amount has to be replaced out-of-pocket until a year-end tax
> rebate.


All I had to do was tell my broker that I was pulling the money
out with the intent of depositing back within 60 days, and there
was no withholding and not penalties.

- quote -

> 3) How long can you expect to keep such a "loan" without burning up
> days that you really need for transfer logistics: (60 days) -
> (withdrawal period) - (deposit period) - (murphys law) = 30 or ?


You absolutely have to get the money back into your account within
the 60 days. If you miss for any reason, even reasons out of your
control, it becomes a taxable withdrawal. There are no fixes or
do-overs here. To aid in getting the money in, I dropped off a
cashiers check at the counter of the brokerage, and made sure to
pick up my receipt. That eliminates mail and processing as errors,
and it eliminates the float and back checks from biting you.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III * * * * * 612-720-2854 * * * * * *john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications * * * * * * * * * * * * http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.

  #-1  
Old 05-31-2008, 11:22 PM
dumbstruck
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default IRA 60 day psuedo loan?

How practical as a loan-to-yourself is the 60 day IRA rollover grace
period? Assuming it is for a good reason and there will be no problem
paying it back, how blatently loan-like can you expect to push this
loophole with most administrators?

1) Can you likely just put it back in the same place as it came from?
Or must do a swap of accounts between 2 currently patronized
administrators, for instance?

2) How likely can you negotiate down withholding amounts below 20% or
whatever (I hear you can try a W4 filing or something?). I understand
this amount has to be replaced out-of-pocket until a year-end tax
rebate.

3) How long can you expect to keep such a "loan" without burning up
days that you really need for transfer logistics: (60 days) -
(withdrawal period) - (deposit period) - (murphys law) = 30 or ?

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.

 

Tags
day, ira, loan, psuedo
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