I think the citations in your links are dated. Today one
could argue that generally the only important difference
between a 401(k) and a 403(b) is that the 403(b) is what
certain non-profit institutions offer, whereas for-profits
will, if they wish, offer 401(k)s. IOW, it's a difference in
name and not substance. This is due to a 2001 law called
"ERISA"; google for more info. Both plans may take advantage
of the employee by way of high fees. But in the last five
years or so, the fees have come down a lot, under pressure
from Congress as well as the market. Significantly, mutual
fund choices (without an annuity involved) are much more
common in 403(b) plans today.

But why not go to the horse's mouth? Here are the
descriptions of your plans:

http://atyourservice.ucop.edu/forms_...pd/403bspd.pdf

http://atyourservice.ucop.edu/forms_...rical/spd.html

It appears you have to contact Fidelity for info about your
403(b)'s specific mutual fund choices. You should be able to
log in at
https://login.fidelity.com/ftgw/Fide...om/NBHome.html

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On May 18, 2:03*pm, Protein Chemist <sevisen.adam[at]gmailDOTHEREcomwrote:
- quote -

Why don't you confirm this "loaded with fees" aspect before you jump
to any conclusions?


- quote -


- quote -

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"Elizabeth Richardson" <erichktn[at]worldnet.att.net> wrote in
misc.invest.financial-plan:

- quote -

Oh, I intend to move them, but I want to move them after getting the facts
and making sure I've soaked up as much as I can about these matters. I
particularly want to avoid situations where a fund manager says: "Great
news! There's been a 5% gain on your investment over the last year. I
only regret to inform you that your net over that last year is negative
3%, since we are taking our 8% cut in the usual overhead/administrative
costs."

I have so far found a great many websites on the subject of these
retirement/cash/savings plans.

For instance, here is a link-to-links page calling itself "403bwise" in
which it lists must-reads. Many of the links are interesting, perhaps
negative or otherwise unflattering.


http://www.403bwise.com/features/403breads.html

One I've read is:

http://403bboondoggle.blogspot.com/
Takes a completely dim view of 403bs as scams set up by insurance
companies, with links to apparently knowledgeable individuals.

If you think this kind of reading is useful or just a bunch of nags and
misanthropes, I'd be curious.

I just want to have pretty much as many facts as I can stand before I jump
into something I will regret.

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I would be concerned about emergencies and having money
available to cover them. E.g. your employment appears a bit
tenuous, so you are perhaps often living off savings. Within
the retirement plans, and if possible, perhaps you should
consider keeping the $6k in a money market account or CD,
should you need to access it. Certainly right now, and from
what you say, it seems imprudent to invest it in the stock
market without taking on great risk.

- quote -

without penalty; or (2) rollover this money into a
Traditional IRA, where there are provisions for emergency
withdrawal (see the IRS tax code, or ask as needed), or
certainly more flexibility will be available as far as where
you can invest the money.

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"Protein Chemist"

- quote -

If the $6k is in a non-performing account, why are you worried about putting
it in an account which would be performing, even if there are some minimal
costs? Or am I missing something here.

Elizabeth Richardson

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"bo peep" <cowartmisc1[at]yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fcb26380-50d8-462d-9b57-95325d120578[at]y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...

- quote -

Actually, it may be very detrimental. A person can work for many years in a
job that is covered by SSec, then also work in a non-SSec job. If the person
works enough, even the minimum, in the non-SSec job to earn a pension, he
has now compromised his entire Social Security benefit. And even if he has
never worked in a SSec covered position, if he earns a pension from a
non-covered position, all his spousal benefits are lost.

Elizabeth Richardson

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I note that the "UC DCP" appears to be used in lieu of your normal
social security contributions, rather than in addition to it. That
*seems* like it would be a good thing.

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On Sun, 18 May 2008 16:03:43 -0500, Protein Chemist
<sevisen.adam[at]gmailDOTHEREcom> wrote:

- quote -

Because they are pre-tax and payroll deduction, these plans are
usually very good places to save. But you are right to be concerned
with costs. So before ruling them out, how about giving us an example
or two of the fees you mentioned - tell us both the fund's name
(example: Fidelity Equity Income) and the fee that bothers you.



-HW "Skip" Weldon
Columbia, SC

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I want more information about 403(b) and 457(b) plans. My employer in my
temporary job has apparently turned over financial/retirement management
of its employees' contributions to Fidelity, and I will not be
transferring any money from what I think is a zero-risk zero-return
account (called UC DCP, which I think means University of California
Direct Contribution Plan) to this account since I suspect it is loaded
with fees that would eat up any accumulations.

Or so that is what I am reading.

At this point in my complicated life---facts/details about it below, for
those of you who like to be tested by complicated life situations--I don't
expect to hire/rent/buy the services of a certified financial planner,
since my employment (and home residence) situation is not stable at the
moment. Just in case you were set on telling me to find a CFP.

I just want to know what to do with this some $6000 I have in a non-
performing retirement account. As paltry as it is, it still represents
probably 40-50% of my net worth.


========

Facts/Details about Investor's Status

* 48 y male, PhD in life sciences
* Returned in July last year to USA after 15 years abroad
* Net worth: about $6000 in a retirement account and $8000 in a checking
account; owned "home" (a flat with total market value in USD about
$100,000) in foreign country in which wife and 12 y o daughter now live
but counts as zero to net worth in effect
* Employment history since July 2007 (repatriation): abominable...keeps
head above water
* 2007 Form 1040 AGI: $12,966 (effectively last 6 months of that year,
since all other income was excluded foreign income)
* 2008 income: about $8000, including 2.5 months unemployment [at] $200 per
week
* Changed residence 4 times since July 2007, currently paying little rent
to family to hold a room until permanent employment obtained
* Debt: no liabilities at all---who would give credit under these
conditions----but no assets as well (see net worth above)
* Anticipated major obligations in short or long term: college education
support for 12 year old daughter in 5-6 years; home ownership; possibly
new car ownership
* Retirement: no plans to retire at age 65 or even 70...probably will
have to work until deep-sixed the way things have looked with the year
since repatriation...to my surprise...never thought a guy with a PhD would
be so untouchable

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