I received my check from MassMutual today and it was processed as I
had requested: as a *Roth Conversion* Rollover!

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.

"Heather" <HeatherRain[at]hotmail.com> wrote
- quote -

Hi Heather, a fee of this amount is usual when transferring
assets from one brokerage (custodian, whatever) to another
and closing an account. It does take time, and this at least
keeps people from transferring willy-nilly, which raises
costs for all of us. Fidelity, TRowePrice, Vanguard etc. all
have asset transfer and/or closing account fees like this,
though occasionally they offer specials. A few years ago,
USAA Investment Management Company offered reimbursement of
any transfer fees a brokerage house charged for moving
assets to USAA IMCO, plus they offered something like ten
free stock trades, good for a year. Shop around, and maybe
you can find a brokerage that will give you incentive to
move your assets there. Don't count on it, but these days
when banks are eager for money on deposit, it's worth a try.

As Dave and kastnna indicate, it is not a big deal to roll
it over to a Trad IRA, then convert a bit at a time. What's
going on here, anyway? You have just a few thousand in the
account or are we talking upwards of say $10k? Do you have
the money sitting outside this account to pay the taxes on
this in one fell swoop?

I would cut the plan management some slack while it gets up
to speed. The law for direct rollover is fairly new. That
your plan currently is not set up for direct rollover is not
a big deal. Plus having more efficiency and professionalism
yada generally means more costs to plan participants. Maybe
your plan is low cost all-in-all, and this is the tradeoff.

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.

On Apr 21, 5:39*pm, "Default User" <defaultuse...[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

Yeah I don't see any reason why not go through the 2 step process
either.

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.

On Apr 21, 4:41*pm, Dave Dodson <dave_and_da...[at]juno.com> wrote:
- quote -

I would second Dave's thinking here. What's the big deal? Any broker
wanting your rollover account would make this a painless process.

And a $40 acct closing fee is also chump change. Not enough to work
over it.

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.

On Apr 21, 4:24*pm, Heather <HeatherR...[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

Yes. Relax a little bit. It doesn't seem to me that having to do a two-
step conversion from 401(k) to IRA to Roth IRA isn't that big a deal,
certainly not big enough to get worked up over. Why do you think it
is?

Dave

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.

kastnna wrote:

- quote -

Isn't the direct Roth rollover more of a convenience thing? Heather
should still be able to roll to a traditional IRA, then convert it to a
Roth. I don't know that much about the new law, so there may be
features I don't know about.




Brian

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.

On Apr 21, 4:24*pm, Heather <HeatherR...[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

Unfortunately, you are probably screwed. But, to be clear, the 401k
plan administrator is not to blame. The 401k plan document is. The
administrator is obligated to perform within its confines. I haven't
read the new law since it was proposed, but I'm pretty certain the new
law does not REQUIRE that you be allowed to rollover directly to a
Roth, only that it is now an option 401k plans can provide. Whether
your employer takes advantage of this new availability is up to them.
If they decide to allow for the "Roth Roll" they must amend the plan
document, which is neither a free nor a speedy process.

- quote -

Nope. It's common. They also usually charge $50 to process loans
against your own account. I've seen people go bonkers over that one!
You agreed to the fees when you enrolled. They also did not make these
fees up last night. They've been in disclosed and available since the
plan was established, it's just that no one thinks to ask until it's
too late.

- quote -

There is likely not an "updated plan document". Again, the key to
understanding is to know that the law is not mandatory. They don't
have to allow it, and apparently they don't at this time.

P.S. - If the 401k was pre-tax money you will have to pay taxes to
convert to the roth. This may or may not affect your actions, I just
wanted to make sure you were aware of it.

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.

Can a 401k Plan/Plan Administrator restrict rollovers to certain types
of IRA accounts? Specifically, when an employee is terminated and
wants to take a full distribution/rollover to an IRA and close their
existing 401k account, can the Plan/Plan Administrator say they will
only allow direct rollovers to Traditional IRAs and not to Roth IRAs,
even though rollovers to Roth IRAs became allowable by law on January
1, 2008? Does the Plan/Plan Administrator have that authority? Is
there anything I can do to fight it? Yes, I know I can go ahead and
roll the thing into a Traditional IRA and then subsequently convert it
to a Roth IRA but that is the whole POINT of the new law: to prevent
those additional steps. Can my 401k Plan Administrator just say
(basically), "We don't feel like implementing new procedures or
updating our system, so we're just not going to allow it right now
because we can't produce the proper tax forms". The law has been in
place for 3 1/2 months, they knew that it was coming for a looooong
time before that, but they just didn't get their act together. Very,
very frustrating.

It gets worse. Not only that, they want to top it all off with a $40
account closing/servicing fee. I almost died. They want $40 out of
*MY* retirement when they can't even do what I asked?!? Is that
legal? Is there anything I can do to fight *THAT*??

I got lucky enough with a Google search to get the Plan
Administrator's telephone number and email address (very big company -
ADP - didn't think I would get so lucky). I called her up. She was
familiar with the new law but not with the requirements of the Plan to
which she is the Administrator(!). She thought that the Plan spells
out which types of rollovers are permitted and which are not but she
would have to look at the Plan documents to see and call me back. I
told her my copy of the Plan Summary does not address these types of
rollovers because it was written prior to 2008 and asked her to please
send me an updated copy if there is one that addresses this new law.
I followed up my phone call with an email to her recapping our
conversation and thanking her for her time/help. It will be
interesting to see if I ever hear from her again. And if I do, it
will be interesting to see what she says.

Can you offer any advice or help?

Thanks!
Heather

------ Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.