BreadWithSpam[at]fractious.net writes:

- quote -

Well, in my case, the former employer is Intel, and their 401(k) plan is
managed by Fidelity, which also manages my current employer's plan, so
everything is accessible from one web site. Not a big deal.

That said, I've been planning to do a rollover and Roth conversion on
this money eventually. I just don't see any particular urgency about
it.

BTW, I've lamented before that my current employer's plan isn't nearly
as good as Intel's, in terms of the selection of funds. A big company
has the leverage to negotiate a much better package on behalf of their
employees, than a small company who's stuck with whatever standard
basic plan Fidelity offers, filled with a couple dozen mediocre
Fidelity funds. There's enough choice that you could put together
a reasonable asset allocation, but none of the funds are ones I would
pick for myself.

-Sandra the still-cynical ;-)

On Oct 4, 4:14 pm, Lloyd Sargent <lloyd.sarg...[at]gmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

Asset allocation drives everything. With that in mind, you can figure
out whether your old 401K's options mesh with future contributions
going into your new 401K. For example, you say your new 401K is not as
good. Are the options not as good all around or is there 1 or 2 good
funds -- say a S&P500 index fund that has far lower expenses than the
other otpions. If so, you would direct all new 401K money into that
fund and then look at your old 401K to cover international, small cap,
bonds, reits, etc -- whatever else your AA calls for. At that point,
you would compare whether your old 401K's plan is better than a
rollover IRA at Vanguard or ETFs at a discount brokerage for those
categories missing or not acceptable in your new plan.

Thanks everyone! You've given me some food for thought. Indeed the old
company is a multinational in the energy biz. I don't see it going
away anytime soon.

Cheers!

Sandra Loosemore <noreply[at]frogsonice.com> writes:
- quote -

I wouldn't make it a high priority - if and only if the old
company *itself* is also really good. Even if the 401k is
awesome - low costs, great funds, etc - if the company which
sponsors it goes under or has other issues, it can be a
nightmare for the former employee to get at his money. That
happened to me after leaving a very small company. The
former employee needs to funnel requests for rollovers, etc
through the former employer, *not* the 401k provider.

So unless the old 401k has just *fantastic* funds and the
former employer is some large and solid company (ie. a
fortune 500 co), I'd definitely move the 401k to a
rollover IRA pretty quickly.

As far as the OP's situation, he asked if he could somehow
put more money into the old employer's 401k since the
new employer's stinks. No. He should max out the new
401k at least up to the point of an employer match, and
then consider other options - Roth or regular IRAs, mainly.

Frankly, unless the new 401k absolutely stinks, I'd
max it out regardless of the match - with the hopes
that (a) it could be improved or (b) nowadays, folks
stay at jobs only a few years in general - and then
it could be rolled over to an excellent IRA. A couple
of years of higher expenses than you'd like may be
overcome by having a greater proportion of one's
wealth in a tax-favored account later on, once it
can be moved over to a better account.

- quote -

Again, I'd only do that if that former employer is *very*
solid and easy to deal with.

- quote -

Great funds, certainly (and especially cool to be in the
Longleaf fund), but do make sure to weigh that against
having to deal with the former employer.

Since my unfortunate lesson (which did get resolved, though
it took a little detective work to find someone who could
deal with it), I've changed jobs again and this time, rolled
the 401k over within a couple of months.

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting

Sandra Loosemore wrote:


- quote -

Hmmm, what happened that you are less cynical than your prior posts? Or
did you just rush the typing?

I caught this point as well. I've noted (ok, bragged) that my 401(k)'s
S&P fund charges 5 basis pts. I'd be hard pressed to roll over and jump
to 10.

(one friendly warning. Prior to rolling over a 401(k), one should see if
they have any post tax IRA money. If they intend to convert to Roth, all
IRAs are aggregated to determine what's taxable. If they have minimal
pretax IRA money, they can convert in 2010 with little tax impact. Once
that 401(k) is rolled over, it's part of the total IRA balance. This may
not apply to all, but it should be considered for clients to whom it
applies.)

Disclaimer - this is not a tax tail wagging anything. The above is
independent of the asset allocation proper for the account owners.

JOE

On Oct 4, 3:04 pm, Sandra Loosemore <nore...[at]frogsonice.com> wrote:
- quote -

Maybe he should or maybe shouldn't. First we need to define "good". Is
it becuase of the great profit sharing and employer match (that's gone
now)? Or maybe its the fees (although the low expense ratios of ETFs
and Index funds are almost impossible to beat)?

WHY he thinks its "good" will really be the determining factor.

PeterL <po.ning[at]gmail.com> writes:

- quote -

If the OP's old 401k plan really is "really good", why roll it over?

I still have a big chunk of money in a 401k plan from two jobs ago
because it offers some funds I can't get access to in an IRA account:
access to institutional-class shares with lower expenses but without
the minimum investment requirements, some really good funds that are
closed to new investors, and load funds with the load waived. Right
now my money in that account is split between LSBDX (institutional
shares) and LLPFX (closed fund), and I'm quite happy with those two
choices. I have other investments in a Roth IRA and taxable account,
plus my current employer's 401(k) plan.

-Sandra

On Oct 4, 7:15 am, Lloyd Sargent <lloyd.sarg...[at]gmail.com> wrote:
- quote -



Roll the old 401K into a self managed rollover IRA. Practically all
the brokerages and MF companies will set up a rollover IRA for you.

On Oct 4, 9:15 am, Lloyd Sargent <lloyd.sarg...[at]gmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

He is correct, you cannot contribute to a 401k for an employer with
which you are no longer employed. He is also correct that you can roll
the old money into the new 401k, but it doesn't sound like a good
idea.

Perhaps a better idea would be to move your old 401k to an IRA that
you manage yourself. That would allow for greater personal control
over the account, a larger pool of investment choices, and almost
assuredly lower fees. No matter how good your old 401k was, you are no
longer receiving a company match nor are you entitled to profit
sharing. This removes alot of the luster from it.

I have a client that left her money with a former employer for the
same reasons you are mentioning. The former employer was bought out
and some funny business (illegal) happened with the 401k trust. Now
the IRS has frozen the 401k and expects it to remain that way for the
next year. That's very bad news for employees looking to move or
withdraw that money.

If your new 401k offers a company match, you should seriously consider
contributing. Even high fees and limited investments have a tough time
overcoming a decent match. If your employer doesn't offer a match, you
may be better suited investing your money elsewhere. It will all come
down to the specifics of the new 401k.

I worked for a company with a really good 401k plan. Then, I left that
company.

Now I am working for another company, but want to put money (before
taxes) into the previous 401k. Talking to our wiz in accounting, he
sez it isn't possible. But, I CAN move it into the new companies 401k
plan (which isn't very good).

So here is my dilemma: do I open a SECOND 401k (where I may lose money
in the long run) OR pay post-tax dollars to the previous 401K plan
(which is currently running ahead of inflation)?

Or is this just a YMMV situation?