On Sep 19, 9:34 am, Will Trice <wwtr...[at]paragondynamics.com> wrote:

- quote -

As for the fees, I can't say. However, I was looking as much at
expense ratios as I was admin fees. Morningstar puts average MF
expense ratios firmly above 1%, and it isn't common to find a .18%
VFINX in 401(k)s. That alone would motivate me to rollover. The
company match mattered when employed, but not after separation.

To address the OPs original concern/complaint my answer still stands.
It was not illegal if it was written into the plan documents (which it
almost undoubtedly was). Notice sent or not, the document clearly
outlined the 401(k)s rights, authorities, and actions from day 1. Are
we blaming the company for doing what they said they would do, just
because the "fine print" wasn't read?

What the investment is currently in is definitely a pertinent question
(likely money market). Still, 401(k)s are self-directed. There is no
fiduciary duty on the part of the investment company. It is SOLELY the
participants responsibility to manage the account. Inversely, if they
had rolled over the account into a S&P fund and it had lost 10% they
would still be getting grief. Its lose-lose for them so they simply
wash their hands of the situation.

This thread shouldn't be about blame, but responsibility. The
responsibility to manage a 401(k) is your own. The rights of the
401(k) were clearly defined beforehand but apparently not learned. If
the OPs money has been sitting in money market at E-trade for a length
of then obviously accounts are not being reviewed often enough (do we
even know how long its been at E-trade-this may not be an issue).

You gotta watch your own back. Live and learn, my friends.

Will Trice wrote on [Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:22:01 -0500]:
- quote -

Aaaah, I asked because I worked for a local consulting firm that was
bought out and at that time forced everyone out of the 401(k), no matter
the account size. I wonder if a BK would do similar things.

Will Trice wrote on [Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:34:44 -0500]:
- quote -

Or forget that there were supposed to be statements, and forget to check
the balance ever over those last 5 years.

joetaxpayer <joetaxpayer[at]nospam.com> writes:

- quote -

That's the part that's weird. It's very odd that an
account could have been opened in this guy's name at
E*Trade without him being notified somehow and/or
assenting. When a 401k forces out a small account,
the funds have to be sent to either a new 401k or
to an IRA, sure - but if the 401k trustee can't find
the person, for example, what do they do? They
*cannot* liquidate the 401k as a taxable distribution,
but a trustee-to-trustee transfer or check needs a
recipient and how can the recipient trustee (in this
case E*Trade) establish an account without involving
the account owner?

It's a mystery and I'm very curious as to what the
actual mechanics here were.

But as I said, other than that oddity, there's nothing
suspicious about a small 401k account being forcibly
closed out. It's perfectly legal and as someone else
said, probably in the best interest of the person
whose account it is, too.

In my own case, getting a transfer from the 401k of
a former employer was very difficult - the company
where it was invested can't do much - you need to
be able to contact the trustees themselves and in
my case, the company at which I'd worked no longer
existed in the same form and tracking down a trustee
wasn't exactly simple. I'm *very* glad I rolled
that out to an IRA where I don't have to deal with
anyone other than my broker.

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
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- quote -

I'd also ask; shouldn't he have received statements, at least quarterly
(?) from Etrade? Even if he missed the transfer notice, the interest on
cash (if he got cashed out of any funds) would create activity requiring
a statement every so often.

JOE

kastnna wrote:

- quote -

SGI's 401(k) was restrictive, but I believe the company picked up the
administration fees instead of the having the fees come from the
employee's 401(k) account. And they didn't match in company stock! I
guess the biggest issue for the OP may be the one that Bread brought up:
what did the OP's funds get invested in at E-Trade? Did the OP miss out
on 5 bull market years that he thought he was getting exposure to?

-Will

BreadWithSpam[at]fractious.net wrote:

- quote -

They may have picked E-Trade because of other relationships they have
with them, for example stock options received by employees used to be
credited to an E-Trade options account for the employee. Still kind of
a crappy move on SGI's part.

-Will

Justin wrote:

- quote -

No, they emerged from bankruptcy, came out strong, and now they're
losing money again (no surprise).

-Will

Its very common and perfectly legal, although I agree its kinda crappy
that they handled it in the way that they did. I assume they rolled it
over to an e-trade IRA, not just a brokerage account (that would be a
BIG problem).

401(k)s very often have provisions in the plan document that state if
an employee is separated from service and the account balance is below
a certain amount they have the power to rollover the funds. However, I
have never seen a case where the former employee wasn't first sent a
notice that allowed them a certain time period to move the money
elsewhere. Is there a chance that the notice was discarded as "junk
mail"? Or perhaps did you move and not notify the account admins?

Aside from being angry that someone moved your money without telling
you (which is perfectly reasonable to be upset about), why do you
care? They probably did you a favor. Searching the archives here, the
consensus seems that it is almost always better to move your money
away from a previous 401k. Fees are often higher, investment choices
are limited, you have to deal with your previous employer, 401(k)s can
be more restrictive than IRAs, etc...

One quick example: I have a client that did not rollover her money
upon quiting her job and they did not do it automatically. The old
employer had some "accounting errors" in the 401k trust account and
the IRS are now auditing the company. The IRS has frozen the accounts
to sort out the mess and estimated that she may not have access to her
money for another 18 months.

henryfordcastro[at]gmail.com writes:

- quote -

Unless it was fully invested in a single stock which went under,
there's a problem there - they can't just zero out your balance.
Unless...

- quote -

It sounds perfectly reasonable. Have you contacted E-Trade
and gotten information about your funds? 401k trustees
move to new plan managers all the time. Moreover, most
plans also have a requirement that if you're no longer
employed and the account is below a certain size (in fact,
$5000 is the limit, IIRC) may be forcibly rolled into an IRA.
They should have contacted you and you should have had
control over where it went - I'm rather surprised they
opened an account at E*Trade for you unless they were
doing something larger - like moving their whole 401k
over there, too. But it's perfectly legal.

Chances are that the account is all sitting in a money-market
fund at the moment, though, and you've missed out on several
wonderful years of stock market gains, which kind of sucks,
but it's too late to do anything about that. Time to plan
for the future - what are you going to do with whatever
money is still there.

Contact E*Trade and move forward.

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting

henryfordcastro[at]gmail.com wrote on [Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:15:05 -0500]:
- quote -

Didn't SGI go out of business?

Hello,

Not sure if this is the right group but one has to start somewhere,
right?

I worked at sgi from '98 to '02, participating in the 401k plan. When
I was laid off I had more than $5000 in the account, so I left it
there. ADP manages the 401k plan for sgi. I logged on today to check
the balance, and it was $0!!!! Furthermore, the web site stated as I
was not an employee my account had been closed. I called them and they
said I was forced out and my funds were rolled over to an E-Trade
account. Might anybody know if this is legal, or can point me in the
right direction to look it up? I didn't even get a warning that this
was coming down the pike. The only other possibly pertinent facts are,
this year it is five years since I was terminated. Yesterday was my
bday, tho I'm not 65 or anything...

Any help/direction would be appreciated.

tia,

henry