Elizabeth Richardson wrote:
- quote -


Speaking of stealing, troll posts steal time. At least until someone
calls troll. So I'm pulling the MIFP troll alarm - awooooga! awoooga!

Hit your kill file...this is the former CEO of ProtoTech industries,
remember...? Try the archives.

The $225M nest egg in the Cook Islands (or is it Switzerland) was a bit
much.

-Tad

"DarkProtoman" <Protoman2050[at]gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178763693.391646.83870[at]w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

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Are you sure that $130K/month is going to continue without interruption for
20 years? Suppose you become disabled. Suppose the government begins to
regulate medical practice and makes high earnings more difficult. Suppose
you get divorced and have big alimony payments, etc., etc. Although asset
protection is possible in Switzerland today, will it always be so? If the
USA goes out of business, maybe Switzerland will go out of business at the
same time, who knows.

What you are doing certainly is an excellent idea in one sense: You are
planning for the future and doing some calculations to get a better idea of
what the future might bring. But you should go slow on making assumptions
about what is going to happen based on present circumstances. I would just
put away as much as possible into sound investments of a variety of types
and not count on any final amount in 20 years. By all means resist the
temptation to invest in risky financial products in order to meet some
unrealistic future goal.

"DarkProtoman" <Protoman2050[at]gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178763693.391646.83870[at]w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

You could always try stealing it. Some would think that's the way you're
making it in the first place.

Elizabeth Richardson

On May 9, 2:58 pm, "Don" <dwz...[at]telus.net> wrote:
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OK, what about earning 0.75% monthly? Investing $130K/month at that
ROI for 20 years, I'll have $86,825,293.09. I'll withdraw $10MM to up
my living status, then I'll reinvest it at the same rate. So by age
70, I'll have a nest egg of $225,316,044.70. I plan on reinvesting my
dividends, interest payments, and rent until the 20 year period is
up.

I do plan on seeking asset protection in Switzerland through either a
trust or a corporation sole, which I'll transfer all my assets to. I
know a couple lawyers who have have done their LLM theses in this
subject, so when I go to Switzerland to open up my Swiss bank account
and set up the trust or corporation sole, I'll bring them along.

"DarkProtoman" <Protoman2050[at]gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178597634.134490.180390[at]w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

- quote -

Your expectations are unrealistic, but you are definitely on the right track
in two ways. First, you are planning to live on considerably less than you
earn in a month, and that is good. Second, you are planning to diversify
among several kinds of investments instead of putting all your eggs in one
basket, and that too is wise. If I were you, I would forget about trying to
earn 2% monthly. I would waste no time seeking exotic tax shelters, and
stick with the two good ideas mentioned above. If you search for super
deals, you will most likely waste a lot of time for nothing, and what is
worse be vulnerable to scams that promise 25% a year or such, possible only
in extremely risky investments where you could lose a lot.

<camgere[at]earthlink.net> wrote
on investing in real estate
- quote -

The MIFP archives provide numerous cites that support a
contention that what's reasonable for real estate is closer
to 1-2% appreciation.

The last few years are an aberration; a bubble. It's
bursting in many parts of the country, and people's home
investments are actually showing a negative return.

IMO safe investing demands attention to long term historical
trends as a means of getting some handle on how markets work
and what could happen.

On May 9, 2:00 am, camg...[at]earthlink.net wrote:
- quote -

Yeah, my expenses are about $15K/month, so this leaves me w/ $20K/
month to live on and $125K/month to invest.


======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
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On May 9, 2:00 am, camg...[at]earthlink.net wrote:
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an offshore trust in the Cook Islands. Would that remove or reduce my
taxes?


======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Please trim the post to which you are responding. "Trim" means that except for a FEW lines to add context, the previous post is deleted.

On May 8, 10:37 am, Will Trice <wwtr...[at]paragondynamics.com> wrote:
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All good points. My mistake, I should have put the appreciation at
4.8%. Anything
upto 6.5% appreciation is reasonable (33% return on downpayment).
Yes, it does
take work and isn't "easy". I'm impressed by your point about
sustainability. The first
year return doesn't compound automatically and does drop off. Unless
you continually
leverage as you state. Many people miss that.

The OPs real problem is his tax bracket. As if 33% federal isn't bad
enough, he's in the 35% bracket.
If he uses his income to make mortgage payments the interest is
deductible, even if he has massive negative cash
flow (that's the reason for the Real Estate Professional status). So
if interest payments now
which would otherwise be taxed at 35% federal this year turn into long
term capital gains tax deferred for
10 or 15 years, that is a big win.

Back in the good old Clinton days I was in the 38.6% federal
(marginal) bracket, 9.3% (CA) state tax
and 2% (or so) Medicare tax bracket (again on the the last dollar I
earned). Yes, that's a hair under 50%.
Unless I buy something and pay 7.75% state sales tax Don't even
ask if I bought a gallon
of gas with additional taxes. In real estate you can set your taxable
income to be about whatever you want depending on how much deductible
interest you pay and depreciation you take.
His large income and low expenses really make this planning feasible.
Good work. Employees
don't have that luxury. CPAs and spreadsheets are your friends.

Again, all good points.

camgere[at]earthlink.net wrote:
- quote -


- quote -

First, 20% doesn't get to the OP's goal. Second, you make it sound a
lot easier than it is. Third, this rate of return is only sustainable
if you continually refinance and keep your leverage (and risk) high,
otherwise your return drops rapidly over time.

-Will

On May 8, 2:07 am, DarkProtoman <Protoman2...[at]gmail.com> wrote:
- quote -


So you'll have $130,000 a month to invest? Is that minus all expenses
associated with your medical practice?

Right now a safe return is 5% annually. Anything above that will mean
some risks. Long term average for a diversified stocks and bonds
portfolio is about 10% annually. So 2% monthly will be significantly
higher than that. Is it possible? Yes it is. You need to discuss
this with several fee based investment pros, who'll likely charge you
about 1% annually for managing your investments. As to real estates,
again it's possible to build wealth from that. But it requires hands
on management. You need to devote your time to your medical practice,
not managing your real estates.

On May 8, 2:07 am, DarkProtoman <Protoman2...[at]gmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

A 20% annual Return On Equity in Real Estate is no big deal. If you
put down 20%, break even cash flow and have a leverage of 5 and get a
4% appreciation you are there. The relentless 3% inflation works in
your favor for rent increases. This is a lot of paperwork and keeping
track of rent checks and HOA fees. I suggest you marry a real estate
agent/property manager/accountant who can qualify as a Real Estate
Professional. Ask that nice lady with the Indian accent the next time
you call tech support You won't be limited to the $25,000 maximum
loss per year against ordinary income. You've got lot's of income.
You could leverage some properties really big now, get a big deduction
now and get the income in the form of low tax long term capital gains
later. You want to push your income to later years as part of your
strategy anyway. Wifey will end up earning more money than you.

DarkProtoman wrote:

- quote -

I think it's a safe bet that one or more health insurance laws will be
passed in the next 30 years that will significantly change your business
model. Not to mention the naturally declining health of your client
base as they age...

Your gross revenue may be $150K/month, but don't you have any expenses?
Don't you have to pay some taxes on your profit? (Although
interestingly, it seems this type of practice is largely found in
Seattle and Florida, two areas with no state income tax).

A quick internet search of "concierge medical practice" shows that your
story is much more the exception than the rule. So, not only is 2%
monthly ROI unrealistic in any case, but your own income projections
should allow for a lot of volatility.

-Mark Bole

DarkProtoman wrote:

- quote -

There is no way that I know to "invest" money to get that type of
return. There are businesses one can start that might yield such a
return, or may fail. Current market forecasts suggest a 10 yr horizen
will return 8-10%/yr, and any manager who guarantees you more than that
is as likely to lose your money instead of meet these goals. By the way,
why do you think you need such a return?
Saving $80k/mo at 8% per year return and you will have, ahem, $192
million at age 70. You'd be in a position to spend $8M/yr, more than
twice an inflation adjusted final income of about $3M, of which you'd
have only lived on a small fraction, anyway.
With such a high saving rate, there's no need to go into high risk
investments.
JOE
JoeTaxpayer.com

Hi! I'm a physician, and I'm trying to earn a 2% monthly ROI. I opeate
a "concierge medical practice", and I charge each of my patients a
retainer of $3000/year. I currently have 600 patients, so I'm earning
$150,000/month. I'm thinking of living on only $20,000 of that, and
putting the rest in the care of a financial manager. I want to have a
comfortable retirement and something to pass on to my kids. I plan on
retiring by age 70. I'm currently 38. I'd like to earn a 2% monthly
ROI by using stocks, bonds, real estate, precious metals, and
derivatives. Any idea how I could do this? Thanks!!!!!