"Chris Cowles" <spam_magnet[at]remove-me-bellsouth.netwrote:

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I'm not sure what an "MBA in a tech filed" is exactly?

I thought an MBA was masters in business?

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:56:15 -0600, "jIM" <noreplysoccer[at]hotmail.comwrote:


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Nice job of tying thread into financial planning. Thanks.


-HW "Skip" Weldon
Columbia, SC

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It is easier to get a second degree soon after the first degree than it
is to take time off.

It may not be cost effective to get the second degree. The important
issue (as mentioned in other posts) is risk/reward.

If it takes you 3 years (of full time schooling) to obtain a second
degree, how much will this 3 years cost you?

Lost wages
tuition expenses
401k/ retirement contributions
3 years of experience

What will it gain you 3 years later?
cost of debt?
increased salary?
improved starting position?

No one is going to hire a new college grad with an BS in anything and
an MBA and make them a CEO (for a large corporation). The 3 years
experience may be as important to advance career as the MBA. Depends
on situation.

<me[at]privacy.net> wrote in message
news:h71fr29qedh8cggd23mshde55fgkir4p0q[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

As someone in a clinical field, I can say that you forget details outside
your scope of practice. A nursing licensure exam covers topics of
pediatrics, geriatrics, ob/gyn, etc. But if all you practice is adult
medicine, the rest of the stuff gets hazy. If I had to take a licensure
exam again, I'd be seriously stressed, as would the vast majority of
practicing nurses. I'd do quite well in my area of practice. The rest would
be a challenge.

t[at]toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:

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Ahh.... I see now..... point taken

So if a person wants a more advanced degree they better
go for it RIGHT out of undergrad school. Do you
concur?

Just curios.....as I'm in that position right now


======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Posters to this thread should relate comments to financial planning.

- quote -

I think professional certifications are worth more than the advanced
degrees.

For example if someone was a licensed engineer/architect (PE or
similar), I would guess that they wopuld earn equal to or more than
someone with a masters degree in engineering or architecture.

If someone has an accounting degree my assumption is they would make
more as a CPA than they would with an MBA.

A lawyer makes very little until they pass the bar.
A doctor makes not as much until they pass their residency.

My wife increased her salary $10,000 by passing a test to give herself
a human resource license (PHR). She is now taking more tests to allow
herself to adminster health care plans and life insurance plans as a
consultant. These certifications cost ~$200-500 each, maybe a little
more, and the bang for the buck is MUCH higher than if she went for a
Masters in HR management, Behavioral Management or an MBA.

The point- Continuing Education is cost effective IF you stay out of
the University world to do it. Advanced degrees cost ~10k minimum,
certifications and continuing Ed classes would be much cheaper.

I also work in a training organization for a living, so take my advice
with a grain of salt. Continuing Education is what pays my salary!

Todd H. wrote:
- quote -

Thus, my agreement with the advice to sell quickly. If I were to write
an article on this topic (ESPP) I'd be clear on the risk which is
greater than zero on any holding period (even the 5 or so days to clear
the stock). I'd mention that the ideal way to negate that would be to
initiate a short position and deliver the shares bought to cancel the
short, but that most companies frown upon that, regardless of overale
positions held. I'd then drone on a bit how holding the shares would
quickly put one into an undiversified portfolio as 10% of one's income
is likely to be half or more of their savings. And if one insists on
holding the shares than don't buy any company stock in your 401(k).
That's it, I think. That might be my February article.
JOE

me[at]privacy.net writes:

- quote -

You know all that math that you have handy right now at the tip of
your mind? In 5 years, it may be hard to imagine this, but you WILL
forget how to, for example, multiply a matrix.

Also, you get used to a certain income level, more entrenched in your
work and such that it's all harder to walk away from. Also, there's
a possibility you'll meet someone you wanna spend a lot of time with,
who may have their own priorities for your time, more
responsibilities, you might buy a house that needs to be maintained,
all things tat take time away from that advanced degree.

Also, there is a bias among college professors who advise research
against the person with too much corporate experience. They fancy
them as having become unwilling to work their butt off in publications
and research the way students that haven't been exposed to the
corporate environment perhaps have. And there is some truth to that,
since if you get too much corporate exposure, you may feel the
academic research stuff is a bit... well, not terribly practical or
realistic.

THat was my experience anyway. So much varies on the advisor and
realm of research and your personal interests.

But going back to school becomes harder with each passing year for a
variety of reasons. Basically, you get used to not having to do
homework deadlines and tests all the time, and you forget some of the
foundational math tools that almost never get exercised in the real
world (depending on the job).

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

"jIM" <noreplysoccer[at]hotmail.com> writes:

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I dunno... I can't remember if that's right or not. ;-)

--
--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

joetaxpayer <joetaxpayer[at]nospam.com> writes:

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If they sold regularly...

--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

darkness39[at]yahoo.com wrote:

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I'd dare reply that given the rules, "15% discount to the lower of the
two prices at the start or end of the three month period" that even an
Enron employee would have been way ahead. As the stock rocketed up, the
quarterly gains were easily 50%, and even presuming a complete loss by
the worst possible timing, i.e. stock hits account, is worth zero next
day, the multiple instances of 50% gain on the money have the investor
way ahead. (I know, what if you don't go back at all, this is your first
time? That employee just lost 10% of a quarter's pay. 2.5% of an annual
income lost is little compared to losing your job, or to the potential
gains).

JOE

On Jan 24, 11:11 am, m...[at]privacy.net wrote:
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I looked into grad school and chose against it for this reason.
Engineering requires lots of discussion of math theory in undergrad...
because that is how the people with Master and PhD's get their degrees
and thereofre teach courses. If one is not familiar with the Calculus
being shown, you will probably get lost and struggle. I could go from
a Physics course to a material course to an advanced Math course as
senior and my head would be spinning from all the math concepts being
thrown about as if this was second nature to the professors. And that
was my 3 classes before lunch. After lunch woould be 2-3 more classes
with more calculus.

I took my first calculus class in HS at age of 17. I finished taking
my last calculus course as a Junior in 1993. To recall these things 15
years later is not easy if I were to enroll in grad school tommorrow.
I passed all the entrance tests, I have been accepted to a top 10
engineering program, but I chose not to go for the reason that I am too
far removed from remembering these topics.

If it's an MBA which is requiring only general Math, then I think the
issue is grayer... but for technical degrees and technical
certifications, the tests are biased towards some of what is taught at
university level (as opposed to what is done in industry).

Or maybe I am just not smart enough to remember all those things and
keep it straight. The mind is the first thing to go, isn't it?

t[at]toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:

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I'm curious... in what ways does it get harder?

Can you be kind enough to be specific?

Thanks!

On Jan 23, 9:59 pm, joetaxpayer <joetaxpa...[at]nospam.com> wrote:
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I just analyzed PFE (Pfizer) for the last five years and found;
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I keep thinking about all those people who were employed by Enron, who
had their pensions in the company stock.

Diversification *is* important, although most of us hopefully don't
work for the next Enron or Worldcom.

- quote -


- quote -

I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and my first job out of school
was working for a small software company. Depending on who you work
for, the MBA may gain you much, or not gain you a thing.

At our company there are parallell tracks for technical types and
business types. Meaning that someone which is quite technical can
advance to same salary as someone managing a global organization (the
technical person would be the technical lead for that organization).

Many of the technical experts working here only have 2 year associate
degrees. Bill Gates has no degree.

An MBA will help earning power IF you aspire to be in management. It
you wish to remain technical, the key is finding the right employer,
the right position with that employer, and doing your job extremely
well.

I agree that technical certifications can also help- if appropriate for
the field you are in. Doing this while in school or soon after
graduating is important- for example the amount of studying I would
have to do to get a PE license now is significant- I have forgotten
most of what I learned in acadamia... My wife got her professional
certification within 5 years of graduating and it increased her salary
$10,000 within 18 months of receiving her PHR.

I do not think there is a clear forumla (BS+MBA, BS+PE, BS+anything).
Be good at what you do and the credentials may open one door when
another one closes.

me[at]privacy.net writes:

- quote -

As we said in our undergrad EE program, "friends don't let friends
switch to business."

But, this MSCompE will consur that if you're looking to get into the
less technical side and more business and management side of things,
an MBA is probably the way to go. But... you'll be paying for your
MBA if your employer doesn't, and they ain't cheap. If you do
something with it though, or leverage the contacts you make in the
program to do something with it, then of course it will pay back.

On the technical side, if you are accepted into an MS/Ph.D. program in
engineering on the other hand, any US citizen with an EE undergrad and
a willingness to go to grad school full time will end up making a
stipend (albeit not a ton), going to school tuition free. And,
nothing says you can't change your mind about he Ph.D. after securing
your masters.

Whatever you do don't wait to get started. It gets harder and harder
to go back the longer you're out. Trust me on this.

--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/


======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Posters to this thread should relate comments to financial planning.

<me[at]privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3didr2p2kflmjsc5p2fu895vjslctemrb8[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

If you're in the early years of your career, IMO you're better off spending
time getting technical certifications, if applicable. An MBA in a technical
field is more valuable if you have technical credentials to back it up.

I am not familiar with other educational opportunities in your field, so
cannot compare the value of an MBA to degree options. But an MBA on top of
a technical degree (and EXPERIENCE) definitely will help open doors for
advancement. That will contribute to personal financial growth. (Said while
looking over shoulder at approaching moderator.)

I write this only from personal experience. I not an expert on the subject
by any means.
--
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL

"Chris Cowles" <spam_magnet[at]remove-me-bellsouth.netwrote:

- quote -


So you advise to get an MBA to someone who has
bachelors in EE degree?

Get MBA as a masters?

<darkness39[at]yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169580678.518468.91280[at]s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

I concur. An MBA is a very good idea if you want to advance in a technical
field, as does the OP. Technical educations do not leave much room for
learning how to run the business. You need that to advance.

I'm not a manager and never want to be. But my own MBA definitely
contributed to my being in my present position, after an undergraduate
degree in a health field (BSN). I regard my MBA as a business degree for
non-business majors. And, no, I didn't go attend one of the top 15. None of
those would have contributed more to my own goals than the one I got. Other
people have different goals.
--
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL

darkness39[at]yahoo.com wrote:
- quote -

I just analyzed PFE (Pfizer) for the last five years and found;
Over 261 weeks, there was only one instance where the stock dropped more
than 15% (-16.7%) and another instance of worse than -10% (-12.6% to be
exact). Given the time it can take for ESPP shares to hit the account,
selling as soon as it hits is warranted, but the chance of loss is slim.
Given the purchase price is discounted off the two end points of the
three month period, I looked at that, too, and found an average benefit
from that impact of an additional 4.1% on average. 42 13 week periods
offered a boost of 10%+ in addition to the 15% discount.
This from a stock that's been on a down trend for the 5 year period
studied.

So I agree with you about the advice to sell quickly, but the risk is
minimal compared to the gains.
JOE