"Elle" <honda.lioness[at]nospam.earthlink.net> writes:

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:-) I hate commissions.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

"Todd H." <t[at]toddh.net> wrote
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Todd, I beg your pardon. I messed up, missing your qualifier
"working on commission."

I tend to agree with your original post on this matter.

I used to use a 'financial executive'. I 'acquired' him when the amount of
money I had to invest reached a certain level. I then promptly was
transferred to the brokerage side of my banking institution, and found
myself aligned with a banking representative who had a VP after his name,
and who had no shortage of investments for me to try. After a none too
satisfactory result, I decided to do things the Right way.. First, I
discovered Paul Merriman and the fabulous website: fundadvice.com. Next I
discovered Morningstar, and I learned why Index Funds, used with a 'buy and
hold' type of philosophy, made the most sense for me. I started lurking
around the Vanguard Diehards forum, and other forums found on Morningstar.
I bought the Nolo book entitled 'Plan your Estate', and a couple of others
like 'The Boglehead's Guide to Investing', and you know what I found? I
could do perfectly well in the market WITHOUT a financial planner!! If you
follow a similar path to mine, I bet youll find you can do fine also! But
first, I strongly suggest you get on over to fundadvice.com and just start
reading... read, read, and read some more. Take all the financial planners
you want; you will usually do better than they do just by investing in about
8 Vanguard Index funds covering the key asset categories. He lists several
buy and hold portfolios including one I use for my IRA. Figure what
percentage in stocks and what percentage in bonds is appropriate for you
and then use the following percentages. Buy it and forget about it. In the
end, youll find you will outperform the vast majority of socalled financial
planners, and you will have done it all by yourself, saving yourself hefty
percentages and fund fees in the process!! Good luck, have fun...

% Equity Vanguard FUND
12.5 500 Index
12.5 Value Index
12.5 Small Cap Index
12.5 Small Cap Value Index
20.0 Developed Markets Index
20.0 International Value
10.0 Emerging Mkt. Stock Index

bond % Bond Vanguard Fund
50.0 Short-term Investment Grade
50.0 Total Bond Index

Paul


"The Henchman" <heyhey[at]isforhorses.com.easynews.com> wrote in message
news:1Rimh.177173$jO5.147444[at]fe06.news.easynews.com...
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"kastnna" <kastnna[at]auburnalum.org> wrote in message
news:1167771503.635675.274180[at]42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
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That's what I thought about good planners. After oil prices tanked in April
or may here in Canada too many silly people who invested at the high
panicked and went running to planners. I was visiting mine over income tax
discussions and he mentioned he was busy cause individual investors lost
alot of money in resources in the spring. Apparently he was relieved I had
complicated tax problems instead of lost money in foolish market hype.

I do give a portion of my income to a financial planner each and every month
but only a portion. Unfortunately the person I picked is retiring due to
health reasons and I don't like his replacement.

"Elle" <honda.lioness[at]nospam.earthlink.net> writes:

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No. Lots of professions certainly, but not all. Believe me, I've
spent a lot of time career planning such that I don't have to be in
the position of advocating crap my customers don't need just to make a
living.

The temptation for impropriety is built into commission based systems,
and I don't want to have to be worrying whether my advisor is
recommending something to me because it's good for me above all other
options 100%, or because 80% it's a pretty good fit for me, and 20%
it'll put food on his table.

I feel the same way about Realtors. Buyer's agency is a misnomer of
course because we all know that a buyer's agent doesn't get paid
unless you purchase something, and their return on their time is best
if they get you to buy sooner rather than later.

Mortgage brokers-- that's also commission based. The higher rate they
can get someone to accept, or the more junk fees they can sneak into
the respa, the more money they make. The ethical ones don't do this of
course, but the frequency of finding unethical ones is alarming.

Home inspectors and attorneys though, at least in teh real estate
process are the only ones I like, honestly because they get paid
whether I close on a given purchase or not, so they're most likely to
keep my interests at heart because there's no financial element
swaying them to do otherwise.

- quote -

The smart and ethical ones do this, I think. They have teh "long
haul" model that says if you don't screw your customers they'll be
customers for life and you won't have to find new ones.

The churn and burn model is held by others though. "I can make
enough screwing clients that I can afford to find others, and the
dumb clients may never find out."

- quote -

Good advice!


Anyone working on commission raises my suspicion level I guess is all
I'm saying, and that's why I choose to do my own investment decisions
right now, but I'm on the cusp of getting flat fee help looking at
where I am and what I may need to be doing differently.

Then again, it probably is no surprise I'm also a "changes his own oil
because the quick lube flunkies have managed to screw it up one too
many times" type, as well as an engineer. Engineers can't stand
dealing with anyone on commission!

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

"Todd H." <t[at]toddh.net> wrote
- quote -

Don't you think one could say the above about any profession
or job? Yet I think plenty of financial planners as well as
others working for a living know they darn well better put
the client first pretty often, if not always, else word will
get around and they will lose business.

I think I'm one of the more cynical ones here on this
subject, to boot.

Case in point: Not to flatter, but isn't Skip, one of the
moderators, in this business? The only sense I get from him
is that he's doing the work that someone else does not want
to do, and he's not charging an arm and a leg for it. (Um,
are you, Skip?) Guy touts buy-and-hold index funds, and more
importantly, living within one's means, for goodness sake,
right here in public. How much can he get away with in
private with clients?

Some people hate working with numbers. Combine this with the
bone-headed culture we currently have that insists one
always hire a "specialist" (high school diploma optional?)
and sure you'll see people robbed blind. But not always. If
one hates numbers, pay someone else to do the math.

- quote -

I have indeed seen a few of these. I agree a person has to
be careful.

In addition to your suggestion to seek a flat-fee planner, I
like rick++'s suggestion: Open an account at a big and old
brokerage or mutual fund company, like Fidelity, Vanguard,
Wells Fargo et al., and the reps there will give a lot of
good general guidance "free" (as long as you have an
account) as well as direct clients to good tools. Note that
the tools tend to be similar, which says something.

"kastnna" <kastnna[at]auburnalum.org> wrote
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Is that your firm's motto? It's very good.

"kastnna" <kastnna[at]auburnalum.org> wrote in message
news:1167771503.635675.274180[at]42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

- quote -

That is interesting. Apparently your firm is stable and stays in business
through good times and bad. One thing special about the area where I live is
the relatively large percentage of retired seniors in the population. When
the market is climbing, more fly-by-night firms seem to be around offering
advice, but when the market crashes fear sets in, and the seniors tend to
move to conservative investments.

Don wrote:

- quote -

Interestingly, my firm draws in more investors when the market is
falling. Many people think they are investing geniuses when the market
is climbing and every stock out there is doing well (i.e. internet
startups before 2000). Its only after the crash that people realize
what their lack of investment knowledge has cost them.

We gain fewer clients when they are making 20% on their own. Its when
they lost 50% and we only lost 10% that they come pounding on the door.
But that's just our personal experience, not a difinitive answer to the
OP.


____
"Everybody talks about returns, but its the risk that will break ya."

"Todd H." <t[at]toddh.net> wrote in message news:8464bpsbmv.fsf[at]ripco.com...

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In the area where I live, the number of financial planners advertising their
services in the local papers rises and falls along with the stock market
itself. Many get into the action when the money is flowing freely and get
out when investors become scarce. For an inexperienced person, this pattern
should raise questions as to where the advice is going to be at the times it
is most needed.

I'm too cheap to buy one.
However my brokerage gives me one for free. I used all their
extensive
on-line planning packages, buit the in-person still had a couple of
useful
ideas.

"The Henchman" <heyhey[at]isforhorses.com.easynews.com> writes:

- quote -

The only financial planner I would consider is a flat fee one. I
haven't found one I like yet, but it's on the to do list for 2007.

No more than a Realtor is structured by compensation to truly have the
client's best interest in mind, no financial planner working on
commission is really interested in or educated to put the needs of the
client first. The financial incentive is to sell product, regardless
of its appropriateness.

The other thing is that the licensed financial planners I've met all
seem to be the folks in the "get rich quick" camp who have failed at
other ventures, and don't seem to have their own financial house in
order. I've posted on this issue before...it's really odd that of the
3 CFP's I know, none of them seem to be "live within ones means" types
and all have significant credit card debt. Maybe I'm running with the
wrong crowd, I dunno.

I'm sure there are some excellent professionals out there who could
help my situation, but until I have occasion to meet one, I'm my own
financial planner!

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:03:59 -0600, "The Henchman"
<heyhey[at]isforhorses.com.easynews.com> wrote:

- quote -


I do not.

I've tried two financial planners. Both were "certified" by one of the
national organizations.

I was dissatisfied, in the one case with personal follow-up; in the other
with a lack of information about performance and expectations.

So I chose to educate myself and do it myself.

This may not be appropriate for everyone.


--ron

How many people here give a certain amount of money each and every month to
a financial planner. Why do you or don't you.

Or are people more likely to use them for lump sum investments.....