I already have it.. But in case you didnt know, a general durable power of
attorney, it turns out, is very often times not accepted by a bank. They
need their own POA forms filled out.. Gotta love it. Well, at least if I
have to put dear old mom in a home, I can use her own funds to pay for it by
paying the bills using her checks, signed by me under the general POA
authority.. That i can do with a general poa, and dont need a banks specific
one. Gets complicated, but thats how it works.

paul

"Sgt.Sausage" <nobody[at]nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:19285$459b3df3$42a1e606$13862[at]FUSE.NET...
- quote -

"Sgt.Sausage" <nobody[at]nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:19285$459b3df3$42a1e606$13862[at]FUSE.NET...
- quote -

You're probably right. You're in fine form this morning. Not a good holiday?

Truthfully, glad to see you posting, Sgt Sausage, you make a lot of sense
around here.

Elizabeth Richardson

"Elizabeth Richardson" <erichktn[at]worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:KaUkh.595000$QZ1.461626[at]bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

- quote -

If she's <quote> "senile" <endquote> (for sufficient values of
self-diagnosed
"senile") , it's already waaaayyyy too late to do that legally.

Exactly, DAve. Its a Seligman thing.. Other accounts we have didnt require
the steps that Seligman does. For Seligman to use their 'change of
ownership' form to trigger the procedures necessary to make a simple change
of Trustee, especially when you consider that a change in trustee has
nothing to do with a change in ownership, it makes me wonder how amenable
Seligman funds are to fiduciary relationships.

Paul

"Dave Dodson" <dave_and_darla[at]Juno.com> wrote in message
news:1167418667.967383.43730[at]a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

boostm3 wrote:
- quote -

Well, of course the other main advantage of a trust is to avoid
probate. And for this, all of your assets should be in the trust. In my
case, everything my wife and I own are in our trust, including our
checking accounts, house, cars, and even furniture, clothing, and
personal effects. Why leave something out and have to probate it?

- quote -

That must be a Seligman thing. When my father died, my mother took over
as sole trustee by presenting a copy of the trust and the death
certificate. I think the tax id stayed the same, and a Form 1041 is
filed for the trust.

Dave

"Avrum Lapin" <avrum223[at]verizon.net> wrote in message news:avrum223-458134.20340727122006[at]news.verizon.net...
- quote -

My wife passed away earlier this year. She had only one direct deposit,
her paycheck. By the time I notified the bank (Bank of America), her
last paycheck had cleared, so there was nothing left to stop. They did
not put a hold on direct deposits that were in my name only. Also,
I notified her personnel office immediately, so by the time they
got around to cutting a check for unused vacation time, it was
made out to my name.

--
John Richards

"boostm3" <elliott.paule[at]removethis.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:_fRkh.296$LD7.192[at]newsfe08.lga...
- quote -

Do you have a Power of Attorney for her? You should get that while she's
still competent enough to execute it and to know what she's signing.

Elizabeth Richardson

Mom is the exector, but shes senile, so Ive been acting as executor.. And I
am successor trustee on the trust. What you dont realize is a simple phone
call is not always sufficient.. Some of them want signed documents, etc..
And the worst case is she has one payee that she doesnt even know how to
reach or who it is, or the acct number, or anything. Shes got so much money
she took everything for granted. REally Really dumb.. Now at 85 with memory
going, its hopeless to get any info from her. .So trackign this stuff down
Ive got to be sherlock homes, and its no picnic.

As for the delay in notifying the bank, it was the Estate Planning attorney
himself who did all the trust work and who handles these affairs for us told
me to delay notifying the bank holding the joint acct! Hes probably the
most respected eldercare attorney on Cape Cod, so I have no reason to
quesiton his advice on this matter.

Paul

"Mark Bole" <makbo[at]pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1sDkh.489$ji1.488[at]newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
- quote -

Skip, great response. Ive tried to explain to mom that we dont want to
notify her joint checking acct bank that the joint owner of her account is
deceased until all the depositers that are putting dad's name on the direct
deposits she receives have changed the deposit accts over to her name only.
But this often takes time, especially when it involves pensions and/or
annuities. Since it often involves change of ownership of an annuity, if
thats involved, they have to send mom paperwork to fill out, and she needs
to send it back.. By the time this all happens, and, the institution
implements the change, it can be 2 or 3 billing cycles in some cases! When
all this is complete, thats when it seems best to notify her checking acct
branch and not before. This is a small town branch of a big bank.. I recall
mom telling me that if a payer of hers sends a check to be deposited in dads
name, her bank would allow her to sign his name in front of them and then
they would accept the deposit into their joint checking acct! I could
hardly believe it, but thats what she told me.

Lastly, there is one monthly direct deposit she receives that we have no
idea what it is or how to contact them. We're positive its in Dad's name,
and, its for a few hundred dollars and reads AXA Equitable, and, there is a
number on the direct deposit that looks to me like an acct number. Its a
montly payment, and the direct deposit is made the same time every month for
the same amount. I have online access to the joint checking acct, so with
the acct number I got off the direct deposit info for axa equitable, I
called a few of the axa divisions yesterday, but upon giving each dad's ss
number or the acct number from the direct deposit, Nobody was able to
identify him as a member, nor the payment! So, Im afraid mom is just going
to lose that income after we notify the bank of dad's death. The only
thing I can hope for is, after the deposits start getting rejected, that axa
equitable will send a letter to mom/dad to discuss the returned payments,
and off that letter she can get some contact info. IF that doesnt happen, I
think she'll just lose the monthly income. Luckily, Ive been able to track
down all the other payers and notify them. Now we just have to wait for
them to change their systems over to reflect the change. Once this happens,
we will notify the bank.

Paul


"HW "Skip" Weldon" <skip5700removethis[at]hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sli7p29rkk347cbt43pjcj6hrt807c35em[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

If you understand what an AB trust is, then you know that its purpose is to
hold the amount of the Estate exclusion, currently, $2 mil. With trusts
funded on both sides with amounts that would clearly fill up that exclusion,
funding the checking account to a trust would be superfluous,ie, serve no
useful value in that regard.. Hence, the only assets that made it into the
trusts were large assets.. Checking accts often dont get used to fund AB
type trusts.

- quote -

Even if it were placed in the trust, though, I dont think what you say would
apply, for one main reason.. Example... When a trustee of a Seligman acct
dies, the new or successor trustee is required to fill out a Seligman change
of ownership form, featuring a new tax id as well. The reason for this is,
even though the owner is still the trust, they require the change of
ownership form anyway so that a new account be setup with the new tax id and
new trustee owner.. This form is their trigger to do the proper
verifications of the tax id and the successor trustee, etc.. So, often
times, its NOT just the name of hte trustee that changes, but a whole new
acct is set up!!

Paul

"Todd H." <t[at]toddh.net> wrote in message news:84wt4c7gg5.fsf[at]ripco.com...
- quote -

HW \"Skip\" Weldon wrote:

- quote -

Excellent point.

-Will

On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 13:39:36 -0600, "boostm3"
<elliott.paule[at]removethis.gmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

This is a tough conversion - it's somewhat like the change from
employment to retirement where we have to change our direct deposits,
arrange for different tax treatments, etc., only on a larger scale,
and while emotionally fragile. Plus, being elderly makes everything
seem much more overwhelming.

My experience is that despite all our plans, best intentions, etc.,
there will be oversights, screw-ups (a technical financial term) and
snafus as you work through the process. My recommendation is to take
your blood pressure meds, exercise regularly, sip a few cool ones and
try to get through it. I've found that, miraculously, after a few
months everything works out ok.

Personally, I would notify all payers ASAP - delaying notification
just results in over payments which must be returned, creating yet
more paperwork, explanations, etc.

Yet another reason we all need a cash reserve.


-HW "Skip" Weldon
Columbia, SC

"Dave Dodson" <dave_and_darla[at]Juno.com> writes:

- quote -

This meshes with my (albeit limited and anecdotal) experience with
this. The folks I know who had a trust set up had titled their
accounts to have the account holder be the trust and not the
individuals. When one party passed away, little to nothing had to be
changed with the accounts.

Now, how to handle it now ... I'm not sure. This becomes more of a
changing from a joint account to a trust account issue. I still think
the attorney who's privvy to the will may be the best resource to
weigh in on this.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

In article <zPzkh.25$LD7.21[at]newsfe08.lga> ,
"boostm3" <elliott.paule[at]removethis.gmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

My experience:
After the bank was notified of my wife's passing they put a
hold on all direct deposits. Deposits with her name (her social
security) were returned to sender. Deposits with my name (social
security, pension, auto transfer) were reviewed manually and then
deposited after a delay of 1 or 2 days. That condition prevailed until
I told the branch manager that I would sever a 30 year relationship and
move to a competitor across the street. The manager did something on
her computer and that fixed the problem.

boostm3 wrote:
- quote -

If they have a trust, the bank account should be titled in the trust.
I.e., it shouldn't be a joint account, but a trust account. The only
thing that has changed is the names of the trustees.

Dave

boostm3 wrote:
- quote -

JTWROS (joint tenant with right of survivorship) means just that -- the
surviving tenant(s) take over the account, which means money already in
it, not future payments that she may not even be entitled to anymore.

If "most" of "about half a dozen" monthly deposits are in the deceased's
name, that means maybe four or five -- so what's the big deal about
notifying four or five institutions, especially if it's already been a
couple of weeks? Why would this take another few months? Shouldn't the
executor of your dad's estate be handling these tasks? This situation
is obviously pretty common, why don't you just let the bank follow its
existing procedures instead of trying to do an end run around them?

My guess is you're inviting more trouble by unnecessarily delaying any
notifications, not the least of which is an appearance of impropriety.
Lots of things change at the moment of death, such as beneficiaries and
heirs springing into existence, commencement or cessation of various
powers of attorney, termination of annuity-type payments such as Social
Security and pensions (perhaps followed by the beginning of survivor
payments in a different amount), and so on. You should not assume that
these half-dozen monthly direct deposits are simply going to be
"switched" to your mom's name and go on indefinitely, or even one month,
as if nothing else had changed.

Oh, by the way, IANAL.

-Mark Bole

Thank you for responding, Todd.. Yes, not only a will in place, but they
did, prodded by me, the appropriate estate planning such that both mom and
dad have a living trust which, upon either's death, becomes an irrevocable
trust with me, the son, as successor trustee. The part Im a still a little
fuzzy about is that the trust of the deceased somehow gets subdivided
between the A 'Marital' trust and the B 'Family trust'. I understand how
they are to be used, ie, the 'B' trust to secure the maximum allowed estate
excusion.. But the part im a little fuzzy on is I was under the mistaken
impression that my father's trust would be dissolved and split up into this
A and B trust .. Instead, the lawyer tells me my father's trust remains in
tact, but is some how used to fund the A and the B trusts that are somehow
held within my father's trust. Its the relationship between my father's
trust, and the A/B trusts I need to learn more about. At the appropriate
time, I know the lawyer will fill me in.. For right now, all I need to do is
provide him with the proper acct and asset valuations at time of death for
the assets held in his trust. Thats for tax purposes... Apparently we have 9
mos from time of death to file. In addition, I believe the lawyer will use
these valuations to fund the A and B trusts, making sure that the B side
gets the full amount of the federally allowed exclusion, using the time of
death valuations. Its all a bit complex, but very common, and thank
goodness, theres plenty written about it. Ive found the Nolo book called
'Plan Your Estate ' to be particularly useful.

Paul


"Todd H." <t[at]toddh.net> wrote in message news:84fyb1hv1e.fsf[at]ripco.com...
- quote -


======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Please trim the post to which you are responding. "Trim" means that except for a FEW lines to add context, the previous post is deleted.

"boostm3" <elliott.paule[at]removethis.gmail.com> writes:

- quote -

Sorry to hear about your dad. :-\

You are correct that she doesn't want to be too quick to tell the bank
about his passing--there's really no upside to it as all that might
happen would be that it interrupts her cash flow on direct deposits.
Where she may have a need to deal with this on the banking end is in
checks that come in his name without his being able to endorse them.

This all can get sticky. Is there a Will in place? I'd run this
question by the attorney that is handling that. This surely is
something within their purview that they can best advise on.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

My mom and dad have a joint checking acct... My dad passed away a couple
weeks ago. The acct receives about half a dozen direct deposits monthly
from various depositers. Most of these are in the name of my Father.

If she tells the bank that her husband is now deceased, I presume they will
want to switch the acct from its joint status and put it in her name only..
If they do that before weve been able to notify all the depositers with a
death certificate and to change the name on the direct deposits to her name
and not his, what will happen to the direct deposits sent in his name to the
joint acct number? Will the bank refuse to accept the deposit because his
name is no longer on the acct? Ive wanted to delay telling the bank for a
month or two so that all the notifications and changeover for the depositers
can occur before. Ie, Ive wanted her to keep up the joint acct status until
all the depositers have done what they need to do to change the direct
deposits to her name only.

Would the bank allow a 'grace' period and still allow the deposits to go
through for awhile? If they convert to a non joint acct and apply a new
acct number then I would imagine All the depositers would have to be given
the new acct number, etc, etc... deposits would cross in the mail, etc.. It
could become a real mess. She is 85 yrs old and not really on top of things
to begin with... This isnt going to help.. Any ideas?