"Brent" <RoseInAMouth[at]email.com> wrote in message
news:1167247906.993860.39290[at]73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...

<snip -- all of it
<boggle
Wow. Just wow. Someone's bought it -- the whole sh'bang. Hook line and
sinker.

"Brent" <RoseInAMouth[at]email.com> writes:

- quote -

That's the way to do it if you want to be pretty certain of
becoming a millionaire. There are other ways wherein it's
possible you'll be a millionaire, possibly sooner - and
also more likely that you won't.

- quote -

Um, very *very* unlikely.

- quote -

Forex.com sells "training" - seven lessons for a hundred bucks.
The only guarantee you get out of that training is that you're
out a hundred bucks.

- quote -

Did they mention that most of the stuff traded there is a zero-sum
game? That means for every buck someone makes, someone else loses
a buck. Did you notice where they advertise how you can leverage
your investment up to 200x? That means that your wins and LOSSES
can come 200x as fast as otherwise.

This was my favorite highlight on their site:

In fact, we guarantee that you'll never lose more money
than you have in your account!

That is to say that, yes, it's entirely possible you'll lose
every penny you gamble, er, invest with them. And to make
sure that they don't get left holding the bag, if your trade
is heading south, they liquidate it before *they* have to
take losses, too.

- quote -

Good luck. Honestly. You're going to need it. Sorry.

After you learn the hard and expensive lessons, I very highly
recommend you start all over again with, and don't take this
the wrong way, Personal Finance for Dummies and Investing for Dummies.
They're both excellent books, written by Eric Tyson. Okay,
the titles are kind of insulting. But they are really wonderful
and you'll learn a lot. About "serious investing". As opposed
to gambling.

- quote -

Or maybe you're just trolling. Folks, I have a hard time
telling if this guy's serious or not.

Brent, let me repeat for you, in case you really are serious:
10% a year is *great*. At 10% a year, if you save that $14,000
per year you were bemoaning, you *will* be a millionaire after
22 years. 10% a year for 22 years is an outstanding record.
Most *professionals* don't do that well, and most of those who
do have to take substantial risks to do so. Can you afford
to *not* become a millionaire by the time you retire? Or to
waste a few years before starting to do it in the more reliable
way?


--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting

Brent wrote:
- quote -

Lots of people don't mind becoming a millionaire with a measely $14
grand investment per year, after only 22 years.

- quote -

One is not limited to investment within an IRA account.

- quote -

Every day I see poker players on TV making millions per year. Compare
to this your forex traders are slow pokes in terms of making money.

- quote -

"Brent" <RoseInAMouth[at]email.com> wrote
- quote -

Say Brent, if it's so easy to make money via Forex.com, how
come everyone is not doing it?

It's "VERY possible"? The term we use around these parts to
gage the wisdom of an investment is the risk. How likely is
it that one will lose money by day trading? What fraction of
day traders are wiped out?

I echo Mr. Joetaxpayer's comments.

Brent wrote:

- quote -

10% is the high end for what the market is expected to return over the
next two decades. And it's just under the historical rate of return.
Understand that higher gains mean higher risk. The Forex site you
mention is for trading currencies. For every day trader who hits it big,
there are dozens of those who have lost their seed capital and are back
to their regular jobs. Currency trading is no different. I wish you
well. If you are able to make a go of it, that's great. It's just not
likely.

JOE

Brent wrote:
- quote -

I have listened to Dave Ramsey's program on and off. I have heard him
talked of 12% annual gains with a diversified portfolio. Risk adjusted
that may be within a reasonable range. I have never heard him say
anything about a 21% annual gain, long term.

BreadWithSpam[at]fractious.net wrote:
- quote -

I actually heard it on his radio show several times. Though, I don't
listen to his program all of the time. He emphasizes too much on
savings and less on wealth building, so I'm not too fond of his
program. Dave Ramsey is the financial advisor for safe investing with
virtually 0 risk. I prefer the aggresive investment approach. I have to
take a little risk in investments, and borrowing money for businesses
or investments isn't bad in order to get ahead.

Anyways still, 10% is nothing. Isn't $14,000 per year about the average
max you can contribute to an IRA account for a single person less than
50 years of age? If I were to contribute only $14 Grand per year with
compounded 10% APY return, I wouldn't be a millionaire until after 22
years. Who wants to wait that long? Of course, this is excluding any
other sound investments such as real estate, gold (or any other
bullions), or e-currencies (Forex.com).

-----------------
(Getting off the subject here)

I make a measly mediocre net income (salary + profits) about $50,000
per year from my own small convenient store. That is NOTHING. My goal
is to become a millionaire like Forex.com professional day traders
within 5 years, and it is VERY possible. I know little about serious
investing. That is why I have begun intensive, aggresive Forex.com
training for just a few hundred dollars. You can literally earn on the
order of 100's of % of profit per month. No brokers needed. Just direct
trading on Forex.com with no middleman involved. You keep 100% profit.
This is my approach to serious investing. This is not even including
other investments that I'm interested in such as real estate and gold,
so that I can have a diversified portfolio of investments.


Brent

"Brent" <RoseInAMouth[at]email.com> writes:

- quote -

10% - a consistent 10% - is a very good return. In the long run,
historically, that's about what the stock market has done, *before*
inflation. After inflation is taken into account, it's a bit worse.
(see, for example, http://www.econlib.org/LIBRARY/Enc/StockPrices.html
where Jeremy Siegel notes a 10% average compound return in stocks
from 1926 to 1991)

- quote -

The only way to get that kind of return without taking a huge HUGE
risk is if you have a heap of debt on a very high interest credit
card and you pay down that debt.

Perhaps you'll be more specific about where you heard about this
absurdly high 21% ROI? At a glance at Ramsey's site, I found no
mentions of it.

His site seems to be full of "come to my seminar" crap and an
online store, but fairly prominently, there's a link which takes
you to his "7 Baby Steps" page and that page seems rather reasonable:

1. $1000 to start an emergency fund
2. pay off all debt (presumably, he means consumer debt - see below)
3. 3-6 months of expenses in a savings account
4. 15% of household income into Roth IRA and Pre-tax retirement accts
5. college funding for kids
6. pay off home early (suggesting that he doesn't include the
mortgage in step 2 above)
7. build wealth and give - invest in mutual funds and real estate

Now, I might argue a bit with the order - if one has a decently
low fixed mortgage rate, paying off the home very reasonably can
be moved to last place. And even college funding can be pushed
down - I don't think 15% is enough for retirement savings, and
additional retirement savings should probably come before worrying
about college costs, but these are really minor points and the
overall picture is quite good - pay off debts, save, invest, and
have a safety cushion.

The only part of that which could conceivably suggest a 21% ROI
is paying credit cards with absurdly high interest rates.

But I'm open to correction - where exactly did you see this?



--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting

PeterL wrote:
- quote -

Thanks. I appreciate everyone's response. 10%? Ha? That's very low when
I hear about 21% ROI on the average that Dave Ramsey keeps talking
about. Am I missing something here?

catalpa wrote:
- quote -

The article
http://www.crestmontresearch.com/pdf...0and%20MPT.pdf
suggests we will not see the same past long term rate (10%+). I don't
know that I fully agree with the paper's conclusion (6%), but I believe
it prudent to no longer use 10% in any retirement projections. (FWIW, I
use 8% as the stock, and 5%, cash, returns anticipated for my own
portfolio as well as my clients. Even the 8% was a tough sell, but I
pointed out that if I am wrong, and the return is higher, they'll simply
retire on more money, or retire a bit earlier.)

JOE

"PeterL" <po.ning[at]gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166655480.039664.89400[at]79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

The past long term (20 years or more) compound annual total return of the
S&P 500 index has been shown to be around 10%. With long term treasury
yields under 5%, a portfolio combination of the S&P 500 index with a
significant portion of bonds will have an expected compound annual total
return well under 10%.

RoseInAMouth[at]email.com wrote:
- quote -

ROI is return on investment. The higher the return the higher the
risks. 30% is indeed very rare. I think on a long term basis, with a
diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds, you should be able to see
gains of 10% per year, give or take.

When you are talking about ROI for individual companies, you can
research that from a number of sources. I would suggest the business
section of your library.

I'd like to what different types of IRA accounts are available. Is 30%
ROI rare? What is an above average ROI I can expect that is common?
25%? Where and how can I research companies for good ROIs.

TIA

Brent