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#10
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| An error-correction model is a dynamic model in which the movement of the variables in any periods is related to the previous period's gap from long-run equilibrium. What you do is, first, estimate the long term equilibrium relation between the variables (in this case, earnings of a given company -endogenous variable- and the exogenous variables: company's industry sales, relative price of the good sold by the company/industry; and salaries, and interest rates (which explains most of the cost of goods sold by the company). These exogenous variables -which are non-stationary, i.e, they have a trend to increase (or decrease) over time- need to be cointegrated with the price of the stocks, i.e, a linear correlation of earnings and -say- salaries paid by the industry needs to be stationary. Intuitively, they should move in the same direction over the long term. The error correction model provides both the long term equilibrium and the short term dynamics. For the model's forecast, you need to make some assumption on the evolution of the exogenous variables. Once you make these assumptions, you obtain a forecast of the endogenous variable -in this case, earnings- and therefore you obtain the intrinsic value of the company, and compare it with its actual market value. Paul Michael Brown wrote: - quote - > > > I use an econometric package and an error correction model > > > to estimated future earnings of a given firm. An error correction > > > model is a non-linear, non-stationary model . . . > > What is the cointegrating vector -- what equilibrium > > relationship does your model assume? > As they say down South -- Say what again? > This is why I am a Random Walk, Efficient Market, John Bogle, Index Fund > kinda investor. ;-) > But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading posts from those of you more > academically and mathematically inclined. The group never ceases to be a > learning experience for me. |
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#9
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| - quote - > > I use an econometric package and an error correction model
As they say down South -- Say what again?> > to estimated future earnings of a given firm. An error correction > > model is a non-linear, non-stationary model . . . > What is the cointegrating vector -- what equilibrium > relationship does your model assume? This is why I am a Random Walk, Efficient Market, John Bogle, Index Fund kinda investor. ;-) But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading posts from those of you more academically and mathematically inclined. The group never ceases to be a learning experience for me. |
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#8
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| jose.bailen[at]gmail.com wrote: - quote - > You need to have some estimate of future earnings if you want to know
Jose, good for you for developing a model like that, and very> how much a company is worth. I agree that it is tricky to do these > estimates, this is why I developed my own model -an error correction > model- which is based on the past record of earnings and reasonable > medium term assumptions (5-year) assumptions on the evolution of > exogenous variables, such as industry growth (a proxy of growth of > sales), and the relative prices of the company/industry good with > respect to salaries and interest rates. interesting paper on housing (which could be a thread in itself...did you model the US market as well?). [RE: the equity model - My personal belief is that earnings predictions even a couple years out are difficult/impossible to make any better than the market does. The best we can do is watch for overreactions to earnings misses or other bad news, and adopt a longer-term attitude than the typical institutional investor.] I think you & Beliavsky can find a common ground this way...if you want to value a stock, and aren't assuming infinite life, a dividend-discount model should include a "residual value" or "liquidation value" or "buyout value" term at the end of your stream of projected dividends. And of course, you'd need to look to earnings relative to dividends paid to estimate retained earnings and the value of the enterprise at that end point. I don't see this as strictly a theoretical exercise because "going private" with fat cash flow & a solid balance sheet, or being acquired, is an common exit for businesses that produce the strong cash flow that could be, but isn't necessarily, used for dividends. This wraps into the other Elle thread, on the importance of dividends in choosing an investment. I think for a lot of reasons, you can't focus on dividends when selecting stocks, because there are too many things that get in the way between earnings and dividend policy. Unless you look at total return you're ignoring external factors that might be affecting dividend policy (eg for a REIT, tax constraints; for a stock, acquisition plans). -Tad |
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#7
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| Elle wrote: - quote - > Below is some interesting commentary that, among other
I believe that premise, that most mispricing should be temporary. Though> things, tends to reinforce the notion that as soon as a new > investing strategy appears, its effectiveness quickly > diminishes > [Excerpt] > Studies estimate that a third of all stock trades in the > United States were driven by automatic algorithms last year, > contributing to an explosion in stock market activity. a few anomalies (such as the returns of value stocks) test that assumption. But WRT program trading - my understanding is that a lot of that activity isn't the type of trading you might be thinking of. I think a substantial portion of the volume is more mundane arbitrage trading, including ETF arbitrage. For example if an S&P 500 ETF is priced a bit too high relative to the value of its component securities, even after factoring in transaction costs, you short the ETF and purchase the basket of securities, producing a risk-free profit. There are similar trades for other products and derivatives. If computers weren't working these trades ETFs would face the pricing problems of closed-end funds. The growth in ETFs means ETF-arbitrage program trading should steadily increase, and those profits are always going to be there for the firms with the resources to quickly identify and trade around them. I imagine too many firms may get into it for it to be profitable enough, but that should self-correct. -Tad |
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#6
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| Hendry is an econometrician, a university professor, I don't think he has ever applied his econometric package to finance (he applied it to a model of money demand for the UK and housing market, also for the UK). To my knowledge, I'm not sure if anyone has ever applied error correction models to the enterprise income estimates and thus the calculation of the intrinsic value of an enterprise. The technique is relatively new -it has been around for about 10 years-, and I don't know if any mutual fund has applied it yet. I like this model because of the non stationarity and non linearity of the net income serie, this makes an error correction model an ideal technique to get these estimates. Of course, as every other econometric model, if there is structural change/location shifts, the projections are meaningless. But given this caveat, I think it is the best we can do given the data we have, from the empirical point of view. Elle wrote: - quote - > Backtest it, tell the group why Hendry is not filthy rich at > this point, and report back. ;-) > <jose.bailen[at]gmail.com> wrote > > I estimate the model > > using this econometric package: http://www.oxmetrics.net/ > > . I learned > > how to use it in a couple of courses given by its > > developer, professor > > Hendry of Oxford University, at the IMF. |
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#5
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| Backtest it, tell the group why Hendry is not filthy rich at this point, and report back. ;-) <jose.bailen[at]gmail.com> wrote - quote - > I estimate the model > using this econometric package: http://www.oxmetrics.net/ > . I learned > how to use it in a couple of courses given by its > developer, professor > Hendry of Oxford University, at the IMF. |
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#4
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| You need to have some estimate of future earnings if you want to know how much a company is worth. I agree that it is tricky to do these estimates, this is why I developed my own model -an error correction model- which is based on the past record of earnings and reasonable medium term assumptions (5-year) assumptions on the evolution of exogenous variables, such as industry growth (a proxy of growth of sales), and the relative prices of the company/industry good with respect to salaries and interest rates. These exogenous variables, given the parameters derived from the historical relationship, give me a non-linear dynamic model to estimate profits for the next five years. For the long term, I assume that profits will increase at the same rate as its historical average of 6.1 percent (a rather conservative assumption since my stocks had an above-average performance in the previous 10 year period, and they are micro and small caps with a higher growth potential than the market average). I estimate the model using this econometric package: http://www.oxmetrics.net/ . I learned how to use it in a couple of courses given by its developer, professor Hendry of Oxford University, at the IMF. As you may appreciate, I picked my stocks by using something more than just a stock screener... Elle wrote: - quote - > <jose.bailen[at]gmail.com> wrote > > For a value investor, the estimation of > > future earnings is the most important variable to pick -or > > not- a > > stock, since discounted future earnings gives the > > intrinsic value of > > the stock, which is compared to market value. > Jose, I think folks should take the above as an opinion > only. For one thing, Ben Graham, the so-called father of > value investing, does not recommend relying on future > earnings. Such calculations of the future demand too many > assumptions. > My sense is that the algorithms about which the article > talks seem to use a mix of conventional wisdom for choosing > stocks; some "technical" analysis; and information of all > flavors and varying specificity, depending on the industry > and stock, concerning economic conditions. > Ben Graham has a funny line about "technical analysis" and > how there's nothing technical about such methodologies. I > agree with him (big deal; little Elle agrees with the old > sage, I know), hence my quotation marks, as well as my > 'raised eyebrow' at what some of these algorithms claim to > do. |
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#3
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| Dividends depend on the company's policy with respect to their earnings, they can either distribute them -through dividends- or reinvest them and then increase the value of the stock. For example, Microsoft did not distribute any dividends until very recently (2001 I believe), yet the company was worth in 1986 much more than whatever dividends have been distributing since 2001 or so. So it is discounted EARNINGS, not discounted dividends what determine the value of an enterprise. With respect to the technicalities of the estimation of an error correction model -unit roots, the cointegrating vector, etc...- they are a bit too sophisticated for this forum. I have a paper on the Spanish housing market which uses the same analysis and methodology used for stocks, you may see it here: http://www.um.es/analisiseco/documentos/Jose-Bailen.pdf beliavsky[at]aol.com wrote: - quote - > jose.bailen[at]gmail.com wrote: > > Computers are key but they are just a tool, a very sophisticated tool. > > In my case, to pick my stocks, I use an econometric package and an > > error correction model to estimated future earnings of a given firm. An > > error correction model is a non-linear, non-stationary model which fits > > very well with past data, and it can give a relatively accurate > > projection of future earnings. > What is the cointegrating vector -- what equilibrium relationship does > your model assume? > > For a value investor, the estimation of > > future earnings is the most important variable to pick -or not- a > > stock, since discounted future earnings gives the intrinsic value of > > the stock, which is compared to market value. > It is discounted DIVIDENDS, not EARNINGS, that equal the fair value of > the stock. |
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#2
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| jose.bailen[at]gmail.com wrote: - quote - > Computers are key but they are just a tool, a very sophisticated tool.
What is the cointegrating vector -- what equilibrium relationship does> In my case, to pick my stocks, I use an econometric package and an > error correction model to estimated future earnings of a given firm. An > error correction model is a non-linear, non-stationary model which fits > very well with past data, and it can give a relatively accurate > projection of future earnings. your model assume? - quote - > For a value investor, the estimation of
It is discounted DIVIDENDS, not EARNINGS, that equal the fair value of> future earnings is the most important variable to pick -or not- a > stock, since discounted future earnings gives the intrinsic value of > the stock, which is compared to market value. the stock. |
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#1
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| <jose.bailen[at]gmail.com> wrote - quote - > For a value investor, the estimation of
Jose, I think folks should take the above as an opinion> future earnings is the most important variable to pick -or > not- a > stock, since discounted future earnings gives the > intrinsic value of > the stock, which is compared to market value. only. For one thing, Ben Graham, the so-called father of value investing, does not recommend relying on future earnings. Such calculations of the future demand too many assumptions. My sense is that the algorithms about which the article talks seem to use a mix of conventional wisdom for choosing stocks; some "technical" analysis; and information of all flavors and varying specificity, depending on the industry and stock, concerning economic conditions. Ben Graham has a funny line about "technical analysis" and how there's nothing technical about such methodologies. I agree with him (big deal; little Elle agrees with the old sage, I know), hence my quotation marks, as well as my 'raised eyebrow' at what some of these algorithms claim to do. |
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| Computers are key but they are just a tool, a very sophisticated tool. In my case, to pick my stocks, I use an econometric package and an error correction model to estimated future earnings of a given firm. An error correction model is a non-linear, non-stationary model which fits very well with past data, and it can give a relatively accurate projection of future earnings. For a value investor, the estimation of future earnings is the most important variable to pick -or not- a stock, since discounted future earnings gives the intrinsic value of the stock, which is compared to market value. Elle wrote: - quote - > Below is some interesting commentary that, among other > things, tends to reinforce the notion that as soon as a new > investing strategy appears, its effectiveness quickly > diminishes, due to rapid exploitation of the strategy and > market action. In other words, if there is an investing holy > grail, its lifetime is short. > --- "A Smarter Computer to Pick Stocks," NY Times, Nov > 24 --- > [Excerpt] > Studies estimate that a third of all stock trades in the > United States were driven by automatic algorithms last year, > contributing to an explosion in stock market activity. > Between 1995 and 2005, the average daily volume of shares > traded on the New York Stock Exchange increased to 1.6 > billion from 346 million. > But in recent years, as algorithms and traditional > quantitative techniques have multiplied, their successes > have slowed. > "Now it's an arms race," said Andrew Lo, director of the > Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Laboratory for > Financial Engineering. "Everyone is building more > sophisticated algorithms, and the more competition exists, > the smaller the profits." > --- > For full article, see > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/24/bu...24trading.html , > free online for a few more days. |
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#-1
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| Below is some interesting commentary that, among other things, tends to reinforce the notion that as soon as a new investing strategy appears, its effectiveness quickly diminishes, due to rapid exploitation of the strategy and market action. In other words, if there is an investing holy grail, its lifetime is short. --- "A Smarter Computer to Pick Stocks," NY Times, Nov 24 --- [Excerpt] Studies estimate that a third of all stock trades in the United States were driven by automatic algorithms last year, contributing to an explosion in stock market activity. Between 1995 and 2005, the average daily volume of shares traded on the New York Stock Exchange increased to 1.6 billion from 346 million. But in recent years, as algorithms and traditional quantitative techniques have multiplied, their successes have slowed. "Now it's an arms race," said Andrew Lo, director of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Laboratory for Financial Engineering. "Everyone is building more sophisticated algorithms, and the more competition exists, the smaller the profits." --- For full article, see http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/24/bu...24trading.html , free online for a few more days. |